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albyht Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 11 March 2017 3:52:22 PM(UTC)
albyht

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Just wondering what proportion of early holden owners with original / period look cars still run stock heads and use some form of valve saver lube v's heads converted to run unleaded. I had mine converted it seemed sensible but i don't have a low milage, completely original, unrestored car that deserves to be preserved in its original form. Is anyone still running leaded heads ?
wbute Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 11 March 2017 5:44:21 PM(UTC)
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Converted mine to hardened seats years ago.
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#3 Posted : Saturday, 11 March 2017 6:46:58 PM(UTC)
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Got a couple of 30 year old VLs, so they have the hardened seats from factory, but have several mates with earlier cars that have put VL heads on them, or converted to EFI top-ends.

If you're not worried about keeping it original, but don't want huge hassles, the EFI 304 top end is an easy enough conversion (legality wise) but the costs do add up when you factor in exhaust work, cam, wiring etc.
.
Cheers,

Mick
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stevo Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 11 March 2017 10:42:10 PM(UTC)
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How long has unleaded been around 30 years? Don't waste your money on flash lube or any other valve saver a lot of blokes drove red blue and black holden motors a long way on unleaded the valves went a long way before a headjob was required. I've only had a licence 25 years and never brought super the dungers (HZ VB VC VK) I drove for 20 years didn't have inserts or ever see flash lube.

Edited by user Saturday, 11 March 2017 10:53:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hay Politician theres a yank over there go suck it off you gave it everything else it took our money and fucked off.
wbute Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, 12 March 2017 6:18:57 AM(UTC)
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It wasn't just valve wear, pinging was a big problem too.
I wonder if it is worth worrying about really too. Use premium unleaded to stop pinging. I guess if your re-building an engine it's crazy not to put inserts in the valve seats though.
I miss not seeing a nice grey pipe after a long run in a car though.
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, 12 March 2017 6:43:25 AM(UTC)
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I've had both SBC and 308 on LPG. The SBC's wore stems pretty quickly but the 308's lasted for years. LPG is harder on valves than ULP.
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stevo Offline
#7 Posted : Sunday, 12 March 2017 7:42:20 AM(UTC)
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It wasn't just valve wear, pinging was a big problem too
recurb the distributor and retime the engine blokes have doing that since the 80's.
Blokes that build hot 308's don't use inserts because they don't fit.

Hay Politician theres a yank over there go suck it off you gave it everything else it took our money and fucked off.
HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, 12 March 2017 8:43:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: stevo Go to Quoted Post
It wasn't just valve wear, pinging was a big problem too
recurb the distributor and retime the engine blokes have doing that since the 80's.
Blokes that build hot 308's don't use inserts because they don't fit.



I have black heads and manifold in my shed out of my mate's old VK V5H ex cop car. He pulled them off and used red pollution heads and KC casting intake as he could use L34 size valves with hardened exhaust seats. Apparently the blue and black heads either don't work with L34 and hardened seats or it was too risky.
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wbute Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, 12 March 2017 12:15:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: stevo Go to Quoted Post
It wasn't just valve wear, pinging was a big problem too
recurb the distributor and retime the engine blokes have doing that since the 80's.
Blokes that build hot 308's don't use inserts because they don't fit.



Yeah but if you re-graph and change the timing to counteract lower octane fuel causing pinging, you will lose power. The only way to fix the lower octane and keep power is to increase octane as far as I am aware. Lower octane fuel makes less power and is for lower compression motors. Pinging is actually pre-combustion caused by the higher original compression. The higher octane premium and I am fairly sure some lead replacement additives increased octane.
I used to add Flashlube to our on farm bulk petrol drum for any petrol motors here. I haven't used it for years and I haven't had any motors fail due to valve issues.....yet.
stevo Offline
#10 Posted : Sunday, 12 March 2017 2:01:58 PM(UTC)
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How often do you drive at full throttle? If your a mad petrol head high octane unleaded has been sold for a long time I did drive my vk on 91 unleaded for 15 years the only unleaded mod done to that was re-curbing the distributor which the distributor mob just did when I brought a replacement as the original was rooted around the time I started driving the car most cars I remember with the ole flash lube kits on them were smokey and their heads didn't last any longer.
I still think all of those octane enhancers and valve savers were a waste of money.
Hay Politician theres a yank over there go suck it off you gave it everything else it took our money and fucked off.
castellan Offline
#11 Posted : Sunday, 12 March 2017 2:21:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: stevo Go to Quoted Post
It wasn't just valve wear, pinging was a big problem too
recurb the distributor and retime the engine blokes have doing that since the 80's.
Blokes that build hot 308's don't use inserts because they don't fit.



I have black heads and manifold in my shed out of my mate's old VK V5H ex cop car. He pulled them off and used red pollution heads and KC casting intake as he could use L34 size valves with hardened exhaust seats. Apparently the blue and black heads either don't work with L34 and hardened seats or it was too risky.


All our Ford from 1974 on F100's 250 6 cyl and V8 302 351 were a heavy duty engine had hardened valve seats, but not the Falcon engines.
Valiant had the same in Dodge trucks with that type of heavy duty 245 hemi.

I don't see why the L34 valved red V8 heads would be any different to blue or black, only that the unleaded 5.0L should have them as standard or they are flame harden around that spot as they did with the 1973-4 USA Cleveland heads when they went to unleaded fuel.
The 1973-4 chev heads would be the same.

Maybe some people could get away with the old standard valve heads if they drove easy with unleaded, but a lot of 6 cyl blue heads suffered from the valve seats wear, some say that the castings were of a softer cast iron then the red ? or were being just being flogged harder.
a lot of red 202 would burn out valves but my HQ 202 did 98,000 miles with no problem at all but it was flogged hard and I have seen people who drove slow with them burn valves, maybe due to it running too lean.

If running unleaded with std old valve and heads and maybe better to go a bit richer as well to drop the heat created, one with a standard blue motor should get away with running 91 octane unleaded and maybe re curb the dizzy a little bit where it needs it. 95 would be better fuel but for the forking out the extra cost.
HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, 12 March 2017 6:10:51 PM(UTC)
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VL were flame hardened, same as the last of the HQ 350's.
Perfectune did his heads from memory, and it was Dave Bennett himself who wouldn't cut out the black V8 heads for inserts with L34 size exhaust valves. Mark had to use red heads, and he used pollution ones so the choke would still work.
From memory blue 6cyl had rotators? Probably explains why they had issues. Red V8 were really good on LPG in my experience.
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