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Jet Offline
#21 Posted : Monday, 9 January 2017 6:02:15 PM(UTC)
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how much does changing to concessional save each year?
MOU says logbook trial - is this ongoing,
commodorenut Offline
#22 Posted : Monday, 9 January 2017 6:02:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jayHK69 Go to Quoted Post
Dr Terry,

where do we find the 1859 permit ? i cant find reference to it anywhere,not even on the RMS website

many thanks
Jason

I think there's confusion with the numbering.
The old declaration was form # 1259.
The current one on the website is 1835.
I haven't see 1859, only 1835.

Ask your club registrar - or if that's you, raise it with the CMC/ACMC to get a copy, as reports are coming back that a number of cars are now on the CVS, so the forms must be working.


Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
I might be a bit cynical but why if you can keep a log book to claim your vehicle as a tax deduction, can't you do the same for cheaper rego on a classic car? Why do we need to be tied to a club? Surely owning and enjoying a classic car does not automatically mean you want/need to be involved with a club.

Different sort of "log book" as such. Consider the HVS/CVS "logbook" an "authorised movements" book instead.

A CVS/HVS would not work without the involvement of the clubs and motoring bodies. Can you imagine all the riff-raff of "self approved" historic vehicles that would be on it, and only for cheap rego? The Victorian scheme is the best example of this abuse, and it still requires club membership, but the rules regarding the clubs are much more lax, which is why you see VN commodores on historic rego being driven as daily drivers, until their 90 days is up (which they extend out by using a pencil & rubbing it out, or they don't fill the date in properly unless pulled over).
Cheers,

Mick
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Judge a successful man not on how he treats his peers, but on how he treats those less fortunate.
jayHK69 Offline
#23 Posted : Wednesday, 11 January 2017 10:34:43 AM(UTC)
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thanks for that commodorenut,so i guess either the 1859 is available to clubs & RMS haven`t updated their website or the 1835 is being

thanks again
jason
Dr Terry Offline
#24 Posted : Wednesday, 11 January 2017 10:57:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jayHK69 Go to Quoted Post
thanks for that commodorenut,so i guess either the 1859 is available to clubs & RMS haven`t updated their website or the 1835 is being

thanks again
jason


1835 is the correct & current form. They are available as a download from the RMS website.

Do a search for Classic Vehicle Declaration.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
wbute Offline
#25 Posted : Wednesday, 11 January 2017 5:05:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: commodorenut Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jayHK69 Go to Quoted Post
Dr Terry,

where do we find the 1859 permit ? i cant find reference to it anywhere,not even on the RMS website

many thanks
Jason

I think there's confusion with the numbering.
The old declaration was form # 1259.
The current one on the website is 1835.
I haven't see 1859, only 1835.

Ask your club registrar - or if that's you, raise it with the CMC/ACMC to get a copy, as reports are coming back that a number of cars are now on the CVS, so the forms must be working.


Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
I might be a bit cynical but why if you can keep a log book to claim your vehicle as a tax deduction, can't you do the same for cheaper rego on a classic car? Why do we need to be tied to a club? Surely owning and enjoying a classic car does not automatically mean you want/need to be involved with a club.

Different sort of "log book" as such. Consider the HVS/CVS "logbook" an "authorised movements" book instead.

A CVS/HVS would not work without the involvement of the clubs and motoring bodies. Can you imagine all the riff-raff of "self approved" historic vehicles that would be on it, and only for cheap rego? The Victorian scheme is the best example of this abuse, and it still requires club membership, but the rules regarding the clubs are much more lax, which is why you see VN commodores on historic rego being driven as daily drivers, until their 90 days is up (which they extend out by using a pencil & rubbing it out, or they don't fill the date in properly unless pulled over).

Personally I can't see an issue with everyone accessing cheap rego. I think it's the clubs feeling their legitimacy being eroded. I fill a log book out when I drive a truck all by myself no worries. I filled a log book out no worries to claim a tax concession. Both of these carry more responsibilities to safety and tax revinue than club rego. If your car is road worthy, over 30 years old, does less than average kilometres, then if you should qualify for cheap rego. No need at all for a club and all the hoops.
commodorenut Offline
#26 Posted : Wednesday, 11 January 2017 7:46:03 PM(UTC)
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The government does, and that's why the RMS consulted with various people & groups before making the decision.
Without clubs being involved, and more to the point, representative bodies like the ACMC etc, we simply wouldn't have historic rego.

And that's the whole point here. It's not "cheap rego" as you put it - it's historic rego. People who see it simply as cheap rego are the ones who abuse it & spoil it for the enthusiasts who follow the rules.

Historic rego has been around for decades in NSW. It's only since 1/10/15 that the logbook trial has commenced, and some 14 months later the addition of a scheme to allow modified (legally and/or engineered) to access club rego properly (previously this was an abuse point on historic rego, with heavily modified vehicles being 'approved' by clubs for "historic" rego, without a care for the potential damage they could do to the system by that abuse (or totally derail the trial). Imagine if it was "self approved" as you wish it could be? There's be no end to illegally modded cars going onto historic rego.

When the previous system of only using the car on club runs & maintenance was around, there was a significant number of cars on historic rego, which grew incrementally each year as more modern cars became eligible. This was a restrictive system for those who didn't want to be part of a club or its activities.

The RMS and the lobbying bodies recognised this, which is why they pushed forward for a logbook system. Many hours of negotiations with all parties (RMS, State Govt, Insurance companies etc) went on for several years before it was agreed to allow far more freedom to the owners of these cars, and the approval was granted for a logbook system to go on trial in NSW.

Almost within days of the green light, club registrars were being contacted by heaps of owners who previously didn't want the restrictive system, but now wanted to join up for the logbook trial. Numbers of cars going onto club rego grew significantly after this - I know dozens in the clubs I'm in that were previously on full rego for the 'freedom' it offered, that now all switched over to club rego, as the 45 day logbook trial gives them the same usage freedom (hell I've only used my 30 year old car 3 times in 12 months, and it's on full rego).

But there's a very important word here - trial. If it wasn't administered by the club representative bodies, then we wouldn't have the trial, and we wouldn't have a logbook system that allows more freedom.

Accept the way it is, and play by the rules, and it's a massive win for car enthusiasts with vehicles over 30 years old.
Cheers,

Mick
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wbute Offline
#27 Posted : Thursday, 12 January 2017 4:37:12 AM(UTC)
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Why don't we want cheap rego? the system only gets abused because it's a pain in the arse to access. I want to keep my WB on the road. I might drive it once a year. I have zero desire to be involved with a club that's 100km away.
Yet I can get big tax adavantage on my other cars by just filling in a log book to prove a percentage of its use is business related.
You get hung up on who accesses the cheap rego because they "abuse" the system. The system sucks that's why it gets abused. No offence to all the work that has no doubt gone into organising classic rego but I think it could be so much simpler. Don't drive your car much and it's old, fill a log book in to prove it and give it to the RMS. if you get caught cheating it pay full rego.
wbute Offline
#28 Posted : Saturday, 18 February 2017 6:43:23 AM(UTC)
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Wow, I just got a tractor registered with concessional rego. I needed engine and chassis number, name a rough location it will be used, list safety devices, proof of ownership (which I forgot but they let me fill in a stat dec) and a primary producer dec. $116 later and it's got a number plate. Now that's how hard it needs to be for "cheap" rego for a thirty year old plus classic car. The only other thing you should need is a log book and pink slip. All this club stuff is rubbish.
commodorenut Offline
#29 Posted : Saturday, 18 February 2017 8:11:10 AM(UTC)
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You are talking about 2 completely different "concessional" rego schemes.

One is for equipment that is primarily NOT used as a vehicle/conveyance on a public road, but has the occasional need, as a secondary usage, to travel on public roads or in public spaces - like council lawnmowers, bobcats, excavators, tractors like yours, and other farming equipment. They can also be brand new items, or under 30 years old, and so not have restrictions on the number of times they can be used in a calendar year.

30+ year old cars are still primarily a passenger conveyance - that's their role. It's not a secondary role like an item of equipment - it's their primary use.

If you allow $50 rego on anything over 30 years old, then you'll simply end up with a whole lot of 30+ year old shitboxes abusing it for cheap rego (just like what happened in VIC under the initial poorly managed club rego system - people driving VN commodores to work each day on the logbook). This is not the goal of the system.


Historic rego is for the preservation, maintenance & enjoyment of classic & historic vehicles. Read that line several times over. It's not for allowing cheap rego for old cars.
History already shows that if the system is not governed properly, it WILL be abused, and has been. The NSW system is not hard at all, and was very well thought out & enacted, with lots of consultation with car enthusiasts who also don't want to see it abused.

For a $950 saving in rego/greenslip, perhaps you should let go of your hang-ups about clubs and just go join one. There's plenty out there:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.a...storic-vehicle-clubs.pdf
Cheers,

Mick
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wbute Offline
#30 Posted : Saturday, 18 February 2017 12:26:25 PM(UTC)
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I disagree I am afraid. It's exactly the same. They are all used on the road for limited time. But you miss the point I am afraid. You can make the system as simple or as complicated as you like. It seems clubs want complicated. I want simple.
It can work like this, any car over thirty years old could be registered with cheap (and I mean cheap) rego if the pass road worthy and the owner proves they are not using the car as a daily driver. This is simply proven by a lot g book showing limited kilometres of use.
As far as I can see there is absolutely no need for any club involvement in registering any vehicle. They don't need to be involved in proving my truck log book is accurate do they.
wbute Offline
#31 Posted : Saturday, 18 February 2017 12:28:46 PM(UTC)
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More to the point, it's the fact that it's called historic vehicle or club rego that opens the abuse. People just want cheap rego, clubs want to control who can or can't get it. That's the problem. Full stop.
Sandaro Offline
#32 Posted : Friday, 21 April 2017 12:24:28 PM(UTC)
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My club participates in the Historic Vehicle Logbook trial (in NSW), the trial was said to be for 2 years, expiring this October. Anyone got any inside word on whether the trial was successful and will be extended? Can't see any updates on RMS about it (besides adding the modified scheme)
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