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castellan Offline
#21 Posted : Tuesday, 12 December 2017 9:56:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Silverfox Go to Quoted Post
HI

The concept of an HQ454 Statesman is interesting. I know Leo Pruneau's HQ Coupe' ran a 400 SB for a while before being returned to 350 SB before disposal to a dealer. I think that would have gone well.

If they did do a 454 Statesman even for export only it would be a sought after car today.

The HQ was never designed for such an engine and although it would have been a rocket in a straight line it would have been a mongrel in corners and braking would have been an issue too.

It really would have been a luxury sleeper. Probably would have left both the GTHO Phase 3 and the Mercedes 450 sedan in its tyre smoke. Perfect packaging for the sleeper image would have been a few discreet 454 badges....wow.

Cheers Nick.


I would not say that the HQ was not designed for the big block 454 as it can easy fit in.
My dad had a stock 1971 400 Cleveland and my brother had a stock XB 351 and I know the difference is all in the torque, it's not in HP so much but in torque, so what I am saying is that torque is not fast, it's just like as in strength and that has nothing to do with fast, so a stock 454 would have massive grunt and pull high gearing easy as like a 2.78 ratio.

Having said that by the time the HZ came out with RTS a big block 454 would handle not that badly on the open highway, the Camaro test and Trans am 455 have RTS as well and they say such cars are not that bad to drive quickly.
Of the test I have seen and remember most cars ran around 8.5:1 compression from 1972 in the USA the big blocks would become more desirable for the grunt but what I see is that they are running very low gearing like 3.9:1 or 4.11:1 diff ratios to a top of 3.55 ratio, so top speed must be only about 160KM/H to 180 at best with even that.

I was looking into all the USA muscle cars and was thinking that back in the day what would I of wanted, sadly some of the top of the line performance cars did not interest me at all, they were much like drag cars than a hall arse highway rocket or Sports Touring as we call such. so I was thinking that I would have to look at less than the top shelf model and option the right gearing etc.

The HQ 350's did not perform any better than a 308, but only had a bit more torque and that was it. people who owned them ran and hide from coming out against a HQ 308's, I seen it the fear in their eyes said it all. the added cost of a 350 over a 308 in the day was just tossing your money away and the XB GT 351 was not much better and the XC 5.8L had no chance against a XB GT 351 regardless of what the power figures claim. XC to XE 5.8L were all slugs.
castellan Offline
#22 Posted : Tuesday, 12 December 2017 11:11:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
It would have depended Nick on what 454 was used. The 400 that was to go in the HV/HJ was a 2BBL as were all 400’s until 1974, it was a low Hp, low comp, high torque engine. LF6 was its code. It was less suitable as a performance engine than a stock HJ 308, although in a heavy Caprice with air and steer the 400 was probably more at home. The LF6 was 255hp@4400 and 390lbft@2400 gross. The HJ 308 was 250hp@5000 and 320lbft@3400.

By the time the HQ arrived the 454 wasn’t much better than the LF6. If HQ was to get a 454 it would have been the LS5. In the USA, 1971 engine production ceased in July 1971. The 1971 LS5 was a goodie, 365hp and 550lbft. However 1972 LS5 dropped to 270hp and 468lbft, and with 1972 engine production from late July 1972 means this is what most HQ would have got. 1973 LS4 was 275hp, 468lbft. 1974 270hp, 458lbft. All great stump pullers but not really performance engines. Compared to the legendary 1970 (450hp) and 1971 (425hp, 575lbft) LS6 454 we all hear about, the 1972-4 LS5 would be slugs. I guess a comparison we can all relate to would be a stock XC 351 compared to a Phase II/III engine, or even a stock HQ 350 versus a HT-HG manual 350.


I have 1972 Canada Pontiac's with 400ci V8 4 barrel they use the Chev engines there I think and it has in gross for the
2 Barrel 400ci at 265hp 4400 /400lb 2400 and in Net it has 180hp 3800 /310lb 2400 8.2:1 and they have a
4 barrel 400ci at 300hp 4800 /400lb 3600 and in Net it has 250hp 4400 /325lb 3200 8.2:1

Not a 454 but the 455
And Pontiac engine 455 v8 at gross 325hp 4400 /455lb 3200 and in net 255hp 4000 8.2:1 comp
Net 255hp 4000
And Pontiac 455-HO at gross 335 4800 /480 3600 305hp 4400 8.4:1
Net 305 4400
And a 350 2 barrel with 250hp gross at 4400 /350lb 2400 8.0:1
And in Net it's 165hp 4200
And Net with dual exh 180hp 3800
HK1837 Offline
#23 Posted : Tuesday, 12 December 2017 12:02:07 PM(UTC)
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I think you’ll find the 1972 Canadian Pontiacs were Pontiac 400 engines. I think this is the 6.6L engine used in later 70’s Firebird. GM of Canada ceased having Canadian only vehicles by around 1970, and US versions were sold new after then. I think they still kept Canadian names but used Pontiac 400 and 455 engines starting 1971.

Edited by user Tuesday, 12 December 2017 12:08:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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