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DW Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, 11 January 2019 11:05:03 PM(UTC)
DW

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Gday all,

It appears that I have two Scheel seats fitted to my HQ utility and Im wondering if somebody is able to assist me in identifying them. They have the black white zigzag trim in the middle of the seats which carries all the way up to the top with the grey/blue sides and headrest. The middle sections of the seats don't have any indents with the cloth and foam being of the same flat surface on the bottom section and vertical face up to the head rest.

The back of the seats have a plastic piece that carries up to about 3/4 of the seat back length with no mesh pouch in place and a small lift lever on the outward side, set back about 2/5ths from the FWD end of the seat. The lift lever is surrounded by a one piece plastic shroud that carries all the way from the front to the back of the seat.

1. Given the car has a VJ prefix 304 fitted im guessing they are out of a VL?

2. Were Scheel seats available as an option from the dealer for the VL model for all variants or were they only standard with the upgraded models such as the Director, GRP-A Signiture Series?

3. Possibly out of a VK Brock GRP-A?

4. What were the tell tale signs of difference with the scheel seats to pinpoint the vehicle model?

5. If the seats are possibly out of one of the VL models mentioned above could the VJ prefix engine be out of the same?. I have read that the VL VJ prefix carby fed 304 was not attached to any of the higher end models

From what I understand so far, the seats could be out of a Nissan or Ford ect but given the colours being as they are and the fact that the seat rails bolt into place in a HQ, im assuming its out of a Holden?. Also the plastic back on the seats seem to be different to what iv'e seen on the VK/VL Holden's online as I haven't found any photos of the same unit.

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of the seats as they sit presently but have copied one off the Scheel site with the seats being exactly the same as the one in the copied image.

Cheers
commodorenut Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 12 January 2019 3:00:14 PM(UTC)
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The VJ prefix 304 was available from Oct '86 onwards in all trim levels of VL, and was the same engine, regardless of trim level.
Brock modified cars that weren't a Group A had their regular VJ prefix engines modified (in my case, a HDT 5.6L stroker done on the original VJ block).
VL Group A had the VW prefix to differentiate them, likewise another prefix was used on the Walky EFI engine.
The chances of the Scheels being from the same car would be very slim, and from what you have described about the Scheels, I'd say zero.

As far as the VL HDT Scheels, none of the HDT cars got them with a hard plastic back. They were either vinyl on the rear, or cloth/vinyl, and any map pocket arrangement was the same material, but with an elastic top, to make a pouch. They were standard on the Group A, and optional on all other HDT models, commencing with Level 2 trim - which was Scheels in factory fabric, or L3, which was effectively the full leather/suede retrim.
VL Scheels have a larger headrest than VK - about another 30-40mm of foam on the front of the headrest, and the passenger side lost the release lever (for recline) that VKs had.
Also, many later VL "scheels" are actually a Peratus seat - a locally modified seat that looked like the Scheel, but the frame is the "industry seat" as used in the Camira from JE onwards, and the VL from 10/87 on.

VK Scheels are often found in the cerulean herringbone (like your pic) as this was standard on the SS, and Group A models. They can have vinyl or velour depending on the trim spec. Also available, but much rarer, are Scheels in other VK trim - mainly VK Director style, retrimmed in the factory pattern in either velour or leather to match, or leather in a different colour (the factory only offered leather in Coppertone in the VK).

Scheels were also available in numerous other models - as you are aware, with variations to the foam bolster shape, and marked variations in the headrests - such as the difference between the HDT ones and the Ford ESP/Escort OEM Scheels. The late 80s Ambulances (in NSW at least) also had 3 aftermarket Scheels fitted - very similar to the VL HDT type, in brown fabric & vinyl. Quite a few of these have popped up on eBay over the years claimed as Brock Scheels.....

The ones in the pic you have linked are trimmed in VK herringbone & cerulean velour + vinyl, and are the earlier VK type without the additional horizontal indents in the insert foams like the later VK ones had (these indents were dropped for VL, which had a seam a across the insert instead).

However, if the back of yours are like you describe, they aren't the same as VK ones - they've probably been retrimmed like that at some point, just like most of the Scheels that pop up for sale these days - starting life as something else. It's also not hard to bold Commodore (or WB) rails onto a Scheel, so that can easily explain how they "bolt in" (actually I'm pretty sure Commodore rails don't just bolt straight into a HQ-HZ, but Byron or someone else will correct me if I'm wrong).

Is there any way you can post a photo of your actual seats?
Cheers,

Mick
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DW on 12/01/2019(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, 12 January 2019 4:09:08 PM(UTC)
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No Commodore seats will bolt into a Holden, with one exception. The exception being you can bolt VB-VL seats into a WB IF AND ONLY IF you remove the Commodore rails off the seats and fit WB bucket seat rails to then, then they bolt in. They will not bolt into HQ-HZ though, you have to make 4 new holes for the rails closest to the tunnel (this is where WB differs to HQ-HZ in the floor area).
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DW on 12/01/2019(UTC)
stevo Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 12 January 2019 7:26:26 PM(UTC)
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http://www.scheelaustral...com.au/accessories.html Why not email and ask Scheel as you've used the pic from their web site. The rails most likely will be from a hq-wb otherwise the seats will end up to close to the wheel unless you have a small wheel or your a skinny little shit commodore buckets don't work well in h series along with the fact you need to drill new mounting points thru the floor. Im that big a bloke vb-vk commodore seats weren't comfortable when I tried in my hz ute another time I took the commodore buckets out of a wb panelvan due to the owner wanting the original wheel back and no leg room under the wheel. If they fit nice and theres plenty of leg room under the wheel the rails must be hq? If the mounting points in the ute have been redrilled and there's not much leg room under the wheel they are probably vk .

Edited by user Saturday, 12 January 2019 7:29:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hay Politician theres a yank over there go suck it off you gave it everything else it took our money and fucked off.
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DW on 12/01/2019(UTC)
DW Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, 12 January 2019 11:41:15 PM(UTC)
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Thx Mick for the very descriptive answer which has helped and I will post photos of the seats once I am able to get some as the vehicle is aprox 6 hours away from where I reside with family duties taking precedence at present.

Understood Byron and will have a look at rails when I remove the seats.

Thx Prodostevo. I have been in touch with Scheel over the phone regarding the seats and have forwarded them the specifics from memory with a photo to be given to scheel once obtained for verification. the Skinny little (rightly so in a HQ) shit Commodore buckets work well with plenty of room under the GTS wheel in place, and as you stated given the room, the rails must be from a late H series vehicle. As Byron mentioned I will check for the holes to confirm IF WB seat rails were fitted to facilitate fitment with additional holes if the seats are from a VL that have been re-trimmed.

For the record I would like to state that these seats held me better than any other Holden bucket Ive ever sat in (albeit not correct given the model and year) Q,J,Z era, with a steering wheel and clutch in front of me. They hold you low and tight in a HQ chassis with sash belt retention when you ring its neck and you don't end up in the passenger seat once the side force is applied and from my perspective work well.

I apologise for the post without photos lads but just thought I would ask the question as its only recently come to light for me as to what the seats may be, THX again.

Just out of interest, does anyone know if engine VJ574307 shows up anywhere from around the 86 period?

commodorenut Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, 13 January 2019 5:54:09 AM(UTC)
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The Scheel seats do hold you well, and you do sit quite low in them compared to a regular VL Commodore seat.
As they age, they tend to sag a bit, sitting you even lower (there's a marked difference between my 280,000km driver's seat vs the passenger one in the stroker, but almost no difference between them in my low-km Group A).
This could be why they suit you so well - as they will be much lower than people expect a "commodore seat" to be.

VJ574xxx is the later part of '87, or even into '88. By the end of '86 they'd only made it up to VJ571xxx.
Both my VLs (11/86 & 1/87) are VJ571xxx prefixes, as are most VL Group As from 11/86.
Cheers,

Mick
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DW on 13/01/2019(UTC)
DW Offline
#7 Posted : Sunday, 13 January 2019 11:54:39 AM(UTC)
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Thx Mick,

Any Idea what these fronts are originally out of given the back plastic arrangement?

He's had them re-trimmed and the backs shortened from memory, I can't find the thread again for some reason where I originally got the image from.

Edited by user Sunday, 13 January 2019 12:17:15 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

commodorenut Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, 13 January 2019 2:35:47 PM(UTC)
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The shape of the headrest & recliner knob look like VE SS or SS-V seats, with the plastic back simply trimmed in vinyl.
Cheers,

Mick
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DW on 13/01/2019(UTC)
DW Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, 13 January 2019 7:17:25 PM(UTC)
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Thx Mick
DW Offline
#10 Posted : Sunday, 3 February 2019 2:39:05 AM(UTC)
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G Day all,

Any idea what these originally came out of?

Have just pulled them out of my 72 HQ Kingswood ute and there doesn't appear to be any drilling of new holes ect to facilitate fitment?

Scheel? Peratus?



commodorenut Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 4 February 2019 5:36:54 AM(UTC)
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They're not Scheels. The recliner mechanisms are nothing like Scheel.
They look like an 80s Jap car set - like a Supra, Starior, or even a Honda of some sort - browse some google images of Jap wrecker seats and I'm sure you'll find similar ones pretty quickly.

They haven't drilled holes, as the person who installed them was smart enough to make runners to bolt into the original floorpan, and marry up to the seat. You can see the flat section and the RHS on the runner - these have been added. I'm impressed with the effort they did to make what would be a legal (with an engineers cert) modification - it's done very well.
Cheers,

Mick
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DW on 4/02/2019(UTC)
DW Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 4 February 2019 12:02:33 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Mick, much appreciated.

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