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HK1837 Online
#1 Posted : Monday, 1 April 2019 8:36:38 AM(UTC)
HK1837

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I think I found the source of the BS bullsh!t story, and it is as suspected a case of Chinese Whispers.

Here is the quote, but the original source is quoted (Evan Green, Sun Herald 22/8/71).

https://www.flickr.com/p...efordadverts/5109863216

The original quote was "...On a dollar for dollar basis it is probably the best performing four-door car in the world...."
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castellan Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, 1 April 2019 9:28:32 AM(UTC)
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I always knew that was the case.

A Merc was faster at the time I believe.

But how would a XY GT-HO go with a higher ratio diff, like a 3.25 or 3.0 ?

Let alone what is what from take off to 140MPH say in seconds all the way through, not just top speed.
HK1837 Online
#3 Posted : Monday, 1 April 2019 10:53:03 AM(UTC)
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In 1968 the Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3 was claimed to be the fastest four-door car in the world with 300hp at 4100rpm and 434lb-ft at 3000rpm (assume maybe SAE gross by the magazine times quoted below, but it is an auto and heavy at 1765kg Curb so maybe SAE net?). Factory claimed figures: 0-100mph 14.6s, standing 1/4mile 14.2s. Top speed 220km/h (136.7mph)

Tested by Auto, Motor and Sport published in March 1968:
• 0–80 km/h (49.7 mph): 4.3 s
• 0–100 km/h (62.1 mph): 6.5 s
• 0–120 km/h (74.6 mph): 9.3 s
• 0–140 km/h (87.0 mph): 13.0 s
• 0–160 km/h (99.4 mph): 17.3 s
• 0–180 km/h (111.8 mph): 22.8 s
• 0–200 km/h (124.3 mph): 31.0 s
• 0–1,000 m (3,281 ft): 27.1 s
• Top Speed: 220 km/h (137 mph)

There were some AMG 6.8L cars built that were almost certainly faster than a PhaseIII, 428hp and 450lb-ft, 0-100km/h in 4.2s and 265km/h top speed but as to these being production cars, that is questionable. There may have been some others too, but the fact the standard 300SEL 6.3 was claimed to be the fastest does give some credibility to the claims about the PhaseIII a few years later. But remember the PhaseIII came standard with a rev limiter and 3.25 rear axle so as a stock vehicle it was somewhat limited too.

The figures above are Wiki figures, so before taking them as gospel you'd want to check the sources!

I'd still like to hear from US Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Ford and Chrysler experts as I reckon there would be some COPO style optioned 60's Impalas, Coronets, Chevelles etc sedans around with big power big blocks in them that would also be very quick. The LS6 Chevelles were very quick cars, not sure if there were any COPO sedans made. But again these may fall into the "limited" category like the AMG's
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Dr Terry Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, 1 April 2019 11:39:43 AM(UTC)
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To my knowledge AMG only offered "upgrade packages" to existing cars in those days. Around 1990 they began an agreement with M/Benz to offer complete cars ready to go off the showroom floor, not unlike the arrangement HDT had with Holden. Then in 1999 M/Benz bought out AMG, or a controlling interest anyway.

Any "early" AMG cars were not production cars.

The 300SEL 6.3 Benz's top speed appears to be slightly higher than the Ph3, but the 450SEL 6.9 (1975) kills it.

Both these cars were legitimate production cars, with build numbers much higher than the Ph3.

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#5 Posted : Monday, 1 April 2019 8:24:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
In 1968 the Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3 was claimed to be the fastest four-door car in the world with 300hp at 4100rpm and 434lb-ft at 3000rpm (assume maybe SAE gross by the magazine times quoted below, but it is an auto and heavy at 1765kg Curb so maybe SAE net?). Factory claimed figures: 0-100mph 14.6s, standing 1/4mile 14.2s. Top speed 220km/h (136.7mph)

Tested by Auto, Motor and Sport published in March 1968:
• 0–80 km/h (49.7 mph): 4.3 s
• 0–100 km/h (62.1 mph): 6.5 s
• 0–120 km/h (74.6 mph): 9.3 s
• 0–140 km/h (87.0 mph): 13.0 s
• 0–160 km/h (99.4 mph): 17.3 s
• 0–180 km/h (111.8 mph): 22.8 s
• 0–200 km/h (124.3 mph): 31.0 s
• 0–1,000 m (3,281 ft): 27.1 s
• Top Speed: 220 km/h (137 mph)

There were some AMG 6.8L cars built that were almost certainly faster than a PhaseIII, 428hp and 450lb-ft, 0-100km/h in 4.2s and 265km/h top speed but as to these being production cars, that is questionable. There may have been some others too, but the fact the standard 300SEL 6.3 was claimed to be the fastest does give some credibility to the claims about the PhaseIII a few years later. But remember the PhaseIII came standard with a rev limiter and 3.25 rear axle so as a stock vehicle it was somewhat limited too.

The figures above are Wiki figures, so before taking them as gospel you'd want to check the sources!

I'd still like to hear from US Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Ford and Chrysler experts as I reckon there would be some COPO style optioned 60's Impalas, Coronets, Chevelles etc sedans around with big power big blocks in them that would also be very quick. The LS6 Chevelles were very quick cars, not sure if there were any COPO sedans made. But again these may fall into the "limited" category like the AMG's
I looked into the old high powered USA cars the diff ratios are real low that on the highway they would be crap to drive long distance that it would be a pain.

HK1837 Online
#6 Posted : Monday, 1 April 2019 9:28:15 PM(UTC)
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Some are, especially those aimed at stock 1/4 mile racing, like an LS6 Chevelle with 4.10’s, but GMH also made low ratio rear ends available for those wishing to do the same with HK and HT 81837. I think Ford made 3.5 and lower optional with a PhaseIII too? Also remember many of those US vehicles had 15” wheels and tyres, and if you do the sums you see that a rear axle ratio of say 3.73 with 15” tyres is close to a HK-HT with 3.36 and 14” tyres.

There were some very notable limited run engines around 1961-3 too that went into all sorts of things, like the 421 super duty fitted mainly to Pontiac Catalina, these behemoths did 13 second quarters at close to 110mph, top speeds into the 130’s. Mostly coupes although at least some of these beastly engines from GM, Ford and others made it into sedans. Again hardly “production” status as many were specially hand built engines but then again that is not far from the PhaseIII’s reality either.
Given the Pontiacs produced in Canada up to 1970 used Chevrolet design engines there are supposedly were some Parisiennes, Laurentians etc with high power 427 and 454 engines, these were optional engines though and very small numbers built. You’d imagine most being 2 doors too.

Have a read also about 1966 Coronet Deluxe Street Hemi sedans with 425hp 426 Hemis fitted! These are General Lee engines in a sedan and were fitted with 3.23:1 rear axles and 15" tyres. These engines would rev to 7100 standard so I bet their top speed would be right up there.

The other cars I forgot about were the ChevyII/Novas. These were roughly HK size, and any body shape could be ordered with the 350hp 327 in 1966-7. And later on the 375hp 396 was optional as well. Just about anything fitted with the 327 L76 or L79 (same engine basically except L76 had the mechanical camshaft) was a quick car, even in a full size and L79 was a 14s quarter mile car regardless of auto or manual. The L46 was the same engine as the L84 375hp fuel injected 327 but with carbs. The L79 was the same but with the performance hydraulic cam.

Edited by user Tuesday, 2 April 2019 6:03:31 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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HK1837 Online
#7 Posted : Monday, 29 April 2019 10:52:31 AM(UTC)
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Here is a link with some road test data for a 1966 Dodge Coronet Street Hemi. There was less than 1000 of these, but there were some 4 door sedans.
As can be seen with the 3.54 rear axle they were doing 104mph and 13s quarters, 0-100mph less than 13s. The top speed with that axle and an auto transmission was only 130mph but the convertibles and 4 doors ran 3.25 rear axles from what I can tell, so I’d say those Street Hemi 1966 Coronet 4 door sedans would be good for at least 135mph.

https://musclecars.howst...-dodge-coronet-hemi.htm



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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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