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PeterR427 Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 11:19:34 AM(UTC)
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I am trying to work out how to identify an original HT 307 Ute. Can anyone tell me the correct I’d numbers and is it possible to tell if the motor is original. The Ute in question was built in Adelaide in 1969 , is pale green with darker green trim, any help would be much appreciated
Warren Turnbull Offline
#2 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 11:34:56 AM(UTC)
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It will have code HT80280 or HT80480, depending if its a Belmont or Kingswood.

Next check is front floor, trans tunnel passenger side under dash, if it is smooth then still in race, if saginaw hump then it was 253 4 speed. (unless ultra rare, as not available in HT, is salsbury bump in front edge of fuel tank, then would be 307 manual)

Next check is speedo cable, if comes through behind brake booster, then 253 3 speed, if under wiper motor 307 auto. (some 253 autos built in very late 69 would also be same as 307 auto)

Hope this helps.



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PeterR427 on 13/03/2020(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 12:45:20 PM(UTC)
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If it is late ‘69 it could also be 308 auto or manual, but more than likely a 253 manual or 307 auto as Warren says. There were some 253 auto HT built right at the start of HT but I don’t think there were any utes, just a few pilot sedans and wagons.

The ute’s ID tags and chassis will give up when it was made, but you won’t be able to figure it out yourself.

Edited by user Friday, 13 March 2020 12:49:19 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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PeterR427 Offline
#4 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 12:59:21 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for your response, the ute is auto with the console and shifter to suit a power glide trans, it is not a wood grain console and does not have a tachometer. .Everthing appears to be original, the ute has been on a country property for many years. They have other old cars in various states of repair😂 and lots of parts including motors , mostly Holden,chev and Pontiac stuff. If it was a 307 Ute can you tell me roughly what the engine number would be: it is an Adelaide built vehicle 1969. Regards; Peter
HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 1:15:36 PM(UTC)
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I just counted 13 x 253 auto HT built during the pilot phase and all sedan and wagon spread across all assembly plants.

What is it's numbers? It sounds like an auto by what you have so could be either a 307 auto or 253 auto depending upon when it was built. Outside possibility of being 308 auto. It also will have originally been column shift if it was an auto, there was no console shift in any commercials until Sandman in 1974. It could be a floor shift 4spd manual originally but no console. I’d still be banking on a 253 manual that has been converted using bits from a HK or HT V8 auto passenger car. Or it was a 307 auto column shift that has been converted, but you should be able to tell if the shifter mount is original or not, if it is it’ll be an original 253 4spd or a rare possibility of 308 4spd.

Does it still have LSD stickers?

Edited by user Friday, 13 March 2020 1:25:36 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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PeterR427 Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 1:52:32 PM(UTC)
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Thank you again, the ute in question has been on a farm property supposedly from new, has not been registered for nearly 40 years and is pretty shabby😂 to say the least. Everything appears to be original,no radio or Ariel hole, correct steering column, power glide auto with correct shifter, hand brake is connected the current owner says that it was bought new like this and that the 307 chev engine is amongst the junk in the shed. He is trying to find a old rego paper or any other relevant paperwork for it. There are about 10 chev engines in the sheds, some out of chevys and there are 2 Pontiacs there as well . If it is an original 307 Ute can you give me a ballpark engine number. Regards Peter
HK1837 Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 2:05:37 PM(UTC)
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No I can’t, not without the car’s tag details. There are too many variables to guess anything meaningful other than the engine number will start with 307. It can’t be original console shift though, unless it is something really special.
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PeterR427 Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 2:13:43 PM(UTC)
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I went to the property to look at another vehicle and came across the ute, I will get all the numbers from it and some pictures, for memory the body number was 112A, as I said it is pale green with darker green trim and all appears to be original. I know you could get bucket seats in a HT ute and that Holden would basically build cars to order so maybe it was for a high volume dealer at the time. Any help is appreciated
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 2:27:23 PM(UTC)
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You could get bucket seats OK but order forms are very clear that auto is column only and 4spd is floor shift. Console and buckets were mandatory with 4spd on Premier and Kingswood sedan and wagon but no console shift on commercials, or even Belmont sedan/wagon. HQ SS was the first Belmont to get console shift. Sandman was the first commercial. Other than special internal cars of course.
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PeterR427 Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 2:33:48 PM(UTC)
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It may have been a internal order, a friend of mine bought a purple HT ute 253 4 speed brand new, it was on display at the Adelaide motor show
HK1837 Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, 13 March 2020 3:08:40 PM(UTC)
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I bet it wasn’t console shift though! The only console shift HK-HG commercial I have ever heard of was the Torrid Violet HT ute that was done for a GMH show ute. It was a 308 though, can’t remember if it was auto or manual. It had full GTS front sheet metal and quad headlight front which was typical of Leo Pruneau. Knowing Leo’s taste for top spec driveline I bet it was an auto. I’d also bet that any changes away from standard spec were done offline.
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Tonyl66 Offline
#12 Posted : Saturday, 14 March 2020 8:46:43 AM(UTC)
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The assembly plant code on the compliance plate should match the assembly plant code for the engine . Ie an Adelaide Elizabeth build compliance plate would have L1-L5 and the engine would be 3077xxxx. 7 after the 307 bieng the begining of and Elizabeth allocated engine number. This may eliminate some of the engines you are looking at.

HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Saturday, 14 March 2020 9:22:16 AM(UTC)
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If it is a ‘69 Tony it won’t have a compliance plate, only VIN and BODY plates. Although most of the plants built their own ute bodies, having an Elizabeth BODY plate and chassis number (and for 1970 HT a compliance plate (ADR plate)) doesn’t mean it will have an Elizabeth VIN plate and Elizabeth engine. For example it could have been assembled in WA or even Victoria.
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Tonyl66 Offline
#14 Posted : Saturday, 14 March 2020 9:35:53 AM(UTC)
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Byron, sorry I meant VIN plate number. So the assembly plant VIN plate and assembly plant engine prefix should always match?
HK1837 Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, 14 March 2020 12:03:46 PM(UTC)
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For North American engines yes. The problem is most people think a HK-HG’s assembly location is given by the letter in the chassis number after the numerals, or by the body plate. The VIN plate is the only plate actually attached in the assembly plant.
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Sandaro Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, 14 March 2020 4:36:25 PM(UTC)
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It's nice to be optomistic, but being realistic most 51 year old cars have been modified to some degree over the years. Often because the owner wanted it the way the factory couldn't deliver.

It would be naive to believe you found a car in an unattainable combo based on it being a special order vehicle.

Some vendors are very willing to let you believe what you'd like to believe.

I think you're starting point is Warren's post above to make sure it fits those boxes first

Edited by user Saturday, 14 March 2020 4:38:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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