Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Take the time to read our Privacy Policy.

andrewjill Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 17 March 2021 8:53:25 PM(UTC)
andrewjill

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Australia
Location: S.A

Just done a 186 up and it ran great then a horrible noise shut it down took off side cover to find no 5 and 6 push rods have poped out from under the rockers they look ok same as lifters but lifters have droped lower down in their bores now I can't seem to tension them up us they are to low now for the rocker arm anyone have any idears on this thanks

Edited by user Wednesday, 17 March 2021 8:54:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling error

HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 17 March 2021 9:40:45 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 13,572

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 255 time(s) in 246 post(s)
Are the lifter tops all sitting at the same height, that is level with the engine block casting when they are off the cam lobe? Or have they actually dropped below the top if the lifter bore? Or do you mean the cup in the lifters where the pushrod sits has sunk inside the lifter itself?
Unless the cam has broken and part of it has moved, I can’t see how a whole lifter can sink? Lifters can collapse internally I guess, I assume they were new?
Are the pushrods all the same length?
Have the rocker studs pulled free of the head?
Thought of another, are the valves on 5 and 6 actually closed?

Edited by user Wednesday, 17 March 2021 9:42:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
andrewjill Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 17 March 2021 9:58:26 PM(UTC)
andrewjill

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Australia
Location: S.A

The lifters them selves have droped lower if I move the engine by hand the rods still move up and down I was thinking maybe the cam retainer screws have come out or like you said broken cam but it still moving the rods up and down on 5 and 6
andrewjill Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 17 March 2021 10:05:12 PM(UTC)
andrewjill

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Australia
Location: S.A

It's only 5 and 6 all pushrods are the same and all new lifters oil pressure was 20 psi at 700 rpm and I primed all the lifters with oil for days also all new valve springs
Smitty2 Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 8:16:12 AM(UTC)
Smitty2

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 118
Australia
Location: bayside Melbourne

Thanks: 84 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 9 post(s)
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Are the lifter tops all sitting at the same height, that is level with the engine block casting when they are off the cam lobe? Or have they actually dropped below the top if the lifter bore? Or do you mean the cup in the lifters where the pushrod sits has sunk inside the lifter itself?
Unless the cam has broken and part of it has moved, I can’t see how a whole lifter can sink? Lifters can collapse internally I guess, I assume they were new?
Are the pushrods all the same length?
Have the rocker studs pulled free of the head?
Thought of another, are the valves on 5 and 6 actually closed?



I think HK is on the money with this comment - Have the rocker studs pulled free of the head?

a common faulty ( I ended up pinning the studs in their cast boss on several 179s and 186's where this occurred)
especially if you give it a bit of a rev ...or you use antipump lifters or have very high oil pressure
(the lifters go 'solid)




Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 8:19:13 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 13,572

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 255 time(s) in 246 post(s)
Is the cam a new billet or re-grind?
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Sandaro Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 5:11:35 PM(UTC)
Sandaro

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 194

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 17 time(s) in 16 post(s)
Andrew is saying the lifters themselves have dropped then must of either broken off the base of the 2 lifters or the surface of the cam lobes has stripped???
andrewjill Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 6:33:24 PM(UTC)
andrewjill

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Australia
Location: S.A

Just spent the day pulling the cam out it's broken at 5 and 6 not sure why no con rods have come loose or any other damage lifters are ok push rods are all ok valves are seated and ok It was a brand new crow cam had new cam bearing installed with it everything in the engine was brand new and well lubricated on instalment dose anyone no why this would happen or would it have been faulty to start with just waiting from the company I got it from to answer back as I don't want it happning again with another new cam I wouldn't think 750 revs being tuned and 20psi oil pressure would do it
Sandaro Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 8:05:30 PM(UTC)
Sandaro

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 194

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 17 time(s) in 16 post(s)
On initial start up after installation of new cam I believe the recommendation (once you have oil pressure) is to run motor at 2500-3000 for about 15 minutes. Did you have the lobe grease on the cam?
andrewjill Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 8:29:12 PM(UTC)
andrewjill

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Australia
Location: S.A

Yeah had heaps of cam lube on it we also had to tune a new holly 350 carb that was being installed and set the timing before we could run the cam in but didn't get to that stage as it sounded like someone running along a corrugated fence with a screw driver before it was shut down we got as far as the timing had just been set it was idling great sounded great then the cam let go.
andrewjill Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 8:35:25 PM(UTC)
andrewjill

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Australia
Location: S.A

I know you have to run them in but you can only do that when you have the engine running properly in wich we did that was going to be the next stage was beding the rings and bearings and running the cam in I contacted the people I got it from who said they would have a look and maybe refund me but have no cams for holden 6s nor do crow either
Sandaro Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 9:07:06 PM(UTC)
Sandaro

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 194

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 17 time(s) in 16 post(s)
Yeah, that stuff does need to be done, I suppose you just have to mimimise the time taken as far as possible. It must have been faulty by the sound of it
andrewjill Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, 18 March 2021 9:12:46 PM(UTC)
andrewjill

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Australia
Location: S.A

The supply also said could of been a hairline fracture but should of been picked up in the grinding stage or transit maybe and hadn't seen anything like that as i sent them pics and he has used some for post boxes and what not I just know they don't work well with a crack
HK1837 Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, 19 March 2021 7:20:45 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 13,572

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 255 time(s) in 246 post(s)
The broken cam was really the only answer to your symptoms as described. All the other stuff was just in case your description was misunderstood. I’ve always stressed about breaking in flat tappet cams on new engines. Last time I did one I bed the rings in using an old cam and lifters, then put the new cam in after a week. The 377 SBC I’m building now will be a hydraulic roller to avoid it altogether, but I’m also going to get that engine run in on an engine dyno.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Dr Terry Offline
#15 Posted : Friday, 19 March 2021 2:17:03 PM(UTC)
Dr Terry

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 5,697

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 114 time(s) in 106 post(s)
I can't understand all of the dramas today with running in flat tappet cams.

I spent over 25 years building engines, mainly Holden 6, V8 & SBC & have never had an issue.

I also knew of many guys who never even bothered to run them in & also rarely had problems.

What has changed ? The metal hardness of the lifter base ? Higher valve spring pressures ? Lack of zinc in the oil ?

Dr Terry

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
castellan Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, 20 March 2021 3:16:22 PM(UTC)
castellan

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,504

Thanks: 13 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 22 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
I can't understand all of the dramas today with running in flat tappet cams.

I spent over 25 years building engines, mainly Holden 6, V8 & SBC & have never had an issue.

I also knew of many guys who never even bothered to run them in & also rarely had problems.

What has changed ? The metal hardness of the lifter base ? Higher valve spring pressures ? Lack of zinc in the oil ?

Dr Terry



Maybe it's just fatigue a old Holden red Cam could be 57yo now.

I have been warning people about that they must be using the correct oil for the flat bottom now for years but they just do not listen, they have come to me and said what is this problem from, lifters and Cam lobes totally rooted.
They claim Oh they use the best oil brand and full syn. No! that is not the point at all. the flat bottom lifter needs Zinc etc and only because of ADR laws was such taken out of oil because they claim Zinc can eat out the cat converter.

I like flat bottom lifters batter than roller lifters and all the problems that can come about from that crap. Them Gen 3 plastic lifter buckets are shit ! make sure you replace them with good quality ones, the early ones are crap, but if you are changing a Cam do not use the old buckets at all toss them, or you will destroy the roller lifter.

Roller lifters were a big problem with Mobil 1 full synthetic that I seen, then they changed that oil later down the track to improve it, I believe that the first type oil did not roll the lifters roller and this put pressure on one side of the roller bearing inside of it and wore the roller on the outside on one spot just a touch and the bastard will not spin, now not all the lifters suffered from such, as the ones that rolled a bit I believe were fine, it's the same with some Truck gearboxes the needle bearings have to move and roll around a bit or they will not last regardless.

Oil mainly only stops the metal from touching and dirt and fuel and water etc are what causes the grit between the oil and that is what causes the wearing out regardless, so a mate had a New KTM 380 2 Stroke and after a long week end I dropped my engine oil on the dirt and so did 4 others the same but the KTM bloke said no he uses the best synthetic so it needs not to be changed he claimed, well we got him to drain it and when we came back to his bike their was a pyramid of metal like you would not believe sitting on the dirt, I said their you go ! your bike does not have a oil filter so regardless what metal is in your oil is going to cut loose inside, I used auto transmission oil in my 2 strokes it's cheap and I just drop the basted freely every 2ed month or so.

I have heard turbo bearings rattle or even a stupid winding noise going up and down, such as that can be cured with using different oils that will make a rattling type or a noisy winding noise turbo, just disappear directly.

A roller or ball bearing when you think about it, if it does not spin you are wearing only a % of the bearing, but if she rolls you use all of the bearing surface.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2021, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.230 seconds.