Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Take the time to read our Privacy Policy.

61 Pages<1234>»
Dr Terry Offline
#21 Posted : Friday, 15 April 2005 4:56:04 PM(UTC)
Dr Terry

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 6,015

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 197 time(s) in 180 post(s)
Hi Jamie.

To my knowledge, all HQ/HJ/HX Sandmans could be optioned 6 or V8, but the HZ Sandman had the V8 as standard equipment (no 6 cyl option.

Dr Terry.
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#22 Posted : Friday, 15 April 2005 6:10:44 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Jamie

From the info I have Pagewood didnt build van bodies except in the HQ series - bodies were assembled at Elizabeth. The vehicles were assembled in Pagewood (I think Dandenong was the same). All utes (ie 80 body styles) appear to have been built and assembled at Pagewood. The HX on the website is a HX Kingswood Sandman, with its body assembled at Elizabeth (weve IDd two of these so far), and the rest of the vehicle assembled at Pagewood. XX7 and XU3 are the option codes for the tyres on a HJ-HZ Sandman from ANY plant - you had to have one or the other, and yes Acacia Ridge is the only plant to stamp this on the ID plate. The HZ Sandman you refer to may not be a Sandman, as from the ordering procedure I dont believe you could delete the headlining. It may have been removed at some stage too.

Edited by user Friday, 15 April 2005 6:19:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Guest
#23 Posted : Wednesday, 20 April 2005 8:00:17 AM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
im still not sure what you mean by the Kingswood Sandman. The S.A sandmans where still stamped as a belmont.M 70 and Kingswood N 70. that from i have seen was the different in bodies. All HX-HZ Vans had a full hood lining and light swiches in the door jams. That did confuse people.i own 2 vans,both HZ.the bodies are tottally the same. both factory V8.but the kingswood is a 6-3 spd and the sandman is a 308-4 spd. both have fullhood linings. That Van i told you about before. the Sandman without a hood lining is plated XU3. This old guy is a plummer from QLD. He told me he got it new and asked for it to have no roof as it might get damaged from his tools.
HK1837 Offline
#24 Posted : Wednesday, 20 April 2005 6:12:12 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Another XU3 Sandman. Ive only got one example recorded, ie one Brisbane example.
The Kingswood Sandman was out there and freely available in HQ and HJ, but only on the ute as there was no Kingswood panelvan. On the ute this gave you the stainless around the windows, disc brakes, forced ventilation (I think), 202 (on HJ), chrome tail-light surrounds and whatever else the Kingswood had as standard bar the side strips (ie chrome strips). Basically it was a Kingswood with an XX7 or XU3 option ie GTS wheels, dash, guards (on HJ), stripes etc. Ive got ID plate examples of a few of these, all with XX7 on the body plate. In the HX, the existence of a Kingswood Sandman is not backed up by GMH paperwork that I can find. However I have plates off three separate vehicles, all Kingswood vans plus I have reports of others. The ones I pulled off in the early 1980s was basically a new vehicle with very low kM, just smashed. The second set came off a one owner van with paperwork identifying it as a Sandman. Both of these had all Sandman options (albeit a lot of these are also Standard on a Kingswood), and both are 2200kg GVW ie XU3. The third has a GVW of 1950kg, and also had all of the Sandman options. It is possible this third one is an XU4 with a lot of options, but I need to do some more homework on XU4 GVW in the HX. In the HZ series the XU4 has a GVW 50kg lower than the XX7 for the same spec vehicle (ie body, engine), however this example has its GVW the same as the GVW for a HX XX7. Its an Elizabeth built 308, M21, 3.36 diff Kingswood van.

Edited by user Thursday, 21 April 2005 1:57:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Guest
#25 Posted : Thursday, 21 April 2005 12:10:17 AM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
Had a read and found the following items might need some attention:

The HZ GTS was discontinued as follows: a batch of cars was made at the Adelaide plant in 2/79. One owner was not satified with the car he was assigned out of this batch and his car was made in 3/79. There were no GTS sedans built after this date.

The HX and HZ sandmans had GTS sports mirrors. (also all have GTS grille and headlight surrounds, I know that they are only painted but they are recorded as seperate parts for this reason)

N66 was replaced by N67 on the 18th September 1978.

HZ ordering procedure has the following colours for stripes (31/7/78)

DX5 Bright blue/blue green/dark blue on 1887 1931 2214 1935
DY1 as you have it on 1936 1937
DY2 oronge/bright blue/blue green on 1927 1930
DY3 as you have it on 1926 1933
DY4 white/blue green/ dark blue on 1929 1934 1938 1939
DL7 = delete stripe

Another identifier might be the interior light on Belmont/Holden sandmans. The HZ states it has interior light wiring to the doors unlike other M vehicles.

Might I also suggest that on a page dedicated to the Sandman that you include what the sandman option includes. You could use the system that GMH uses in its ordering guide. For the HZ it reads as follows:

XX7 includes:

B30 Carpet floor coverings
C57 Forced air ventilation
M11 Console floor shift
M20 4 speed manual floor shift 3.05: first gear
N66 6.0JJ x 14 rally wheels
QEU Tyre ER70H14 6 P/R steel belted radial
U17 Instruments oil, water, voltmeter, tacho, clock, facia black.chrome.
XS6 Front bucket seats
D14 Front door armrests
PLUS THE FOLLOWING SPECIAL FEATURES:

GTS headlight bezels, steering wheel, black painted grille and front sheetmetal
Cigar lighter
Kingswood door trim and hardware complete
Front door jam switch
Bright front door sill plates
Kingswood lion grille badge
Black paint out on front door frames and openings
Black paint door handles and windscreen surround mouldings
Colour coded left and right hand door mirrors
Black paint on upper tailgate (8WM70 only)
Mylar insert - rear window seal (8WM80 only)
Bright tail lamp surrounds
Full lenght headlining trim (8WM70 only)
Front air dam
Quartz halogen headlamps

DELETE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS

Holden front end sheetmetal, door rearview mirror, headlamp bezels, steering wheeland door trim and hardware complete, endgate holden nameplate, engate engine badge (optional) Holden grille and badge.

XU3 states same as XX7 except tyre option is QCP instead of QEU.

Alternatively you could link to a page that does have information on what the sandman includes.

You also mention option XU4 as a problem with XU3 identifiers but also B47 can be a problem, this is a comfort package and comprises B30 and full length headlining.

You state that the late HZs have GTS guards, I cannot find any reference to this.

Hope this helps.

Warren
HK1837 Offline
#26 Posted : Thursday, 21 April 2005 1:51:47 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Warren

I think the stripe colours changed along the way as I have conflicting paperwork that shows different colours, but the ordering procedure should be more correct. The part numbers also supercede to later numbers in the revised books - Ive been trying to find early HZ parts manuals to see what they say. The production option availability (dated 23/3/79) also shows DY6.

Ive got most of the above for the HZ, and was thinking about putting it somewhere, but I was waiting to try and get my hands on the HQ, HJ and HQ features paperwork, or ordering procedures so that I can write it for all of them. The biggest problem with writing it though is the revisions along the way, like for the HZ the change from N66 to N67 and the addition of TT5 and V5U later on in the model run.

The GTS guard info came from Ben. I cannot find reference to it either, and Ive been meaning to quiz him on it.

Do you have the date or month that the HZ 8WM80 Sandman was dropped?

Byron
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Guest
#27 Posted : Thursday, 21 April 2005 2:18:24 AM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
great work byron, i can see alot of time and effort has gone into this site
Guest
#28 Posted : Thursday, 21 April 2005 2:42:55 AM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
As it was only a production option I doubt you will easily find this information. I cannot see why GMH would have dropped it, but my paperwork does not go that late.

Warren
Guest
#29 Posted : Wednesday, 15 June 2005 11:56:22 PM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
Byron,
Congratulations!! This is a well put together reference for Sandman Owners. Just a few points I would like to make mention of;
1) I would like to substantiate your comment that HZ sandman vans and utilities were fitted with the SLE wheels from late 79 onwards. I have spoken to several owners who have reported and confirmed this by sending photos of their vehicles to me. In the case of one vehicle the owner had ordered it from his local dealership and was still the original owner. At time of delivery he was advised simply that Holden had run out of stock of the Rally Wheels.
2) With regards to decals I would like to add/verify the following. I have retained factory samples of the following colour schemes
DY 1- Orange, Light Brown, Brown
DY 2- Orange, Bright Blue, Blue
DY 3- Yellow, Orange, Red
DY 4- Bright Yellow, Light Orange, Dark Orange
DX 5- Plum, Purple, Dark Blue
I have inspected (i.e., original decal kits fitted to unmodified HX and HZ sandmans) the following Colour Schemes:
?? ?- Dark Blue, Blue, White (fitted to a supermint green HZ van)
?? ?- Light Blue, Mid Blue, Blue - This colour scheme actually retains the same two outer colours as the Dark Blue, Blue, White colour scheme. This particular decal set was fitted an Atlantis Blue HZ Sandman Van and is the only one of its kind I have seen. I cannot honestly say that I cannot verify the existence of blue/purple colour scheme as I have not personally inspected or had a request for this particular colour sample. I have a vague recollection I saw a set of these on a van many, many years ago and that the purple was almost black in colour. It is interesting to contemplate what duco colour this may have actually complimented given the change in the green colour range from HX to HZ. I also believe that the new colour schemes introduced for the HZ cannot acurately be assigned part numbers. One additional point made to be by several owners is that in 79 several HZ vans were being delivered without the decal kits. I have been lead to believe that this was the case because the public opinion was swaying against their visual appeal. Consistent with this the HZ was the last Sandman produced.
3) There seems to be ongoing debate regarding the fitment of GTS guards to HZ Sandmans. In my experience of viewing genuine Sandman vehicles over the last twelve years I have never personally come across an unmodified factory vehicle that has had these guards fitted to it. Furthermore, logically, I can see no reason why they would have been fitted. I am uncovinced with regard to this point.
4) With regards to dual headlight (GTS?) fronts. I have never inspected a dual headlight GTS front that appears consistent with having been fitted to a HX Sandman Van or Utility from the factory. As you will no doubt be aware the GTS front fitted to HX was of the single headlight variety. It seems highly unlikely that Holden would have fitted the dual headlight GTS front it had reserved for the LE to Sandmans especially given that this front had not previously been fitted on HQ-J models. However, having said this I have inspected a factory delivered Sandman that had a Statesman front fitted. This specific vehicle was quite peculiar as it also retained Statesman badging, grille, and accompanying Sandman Decal pinstripes. I inspected the factory order sheets at the time and recall the option being denoted. I have been advised that the vehicle I am currently restoring XX7 utility did have a dual headlight front fitted but I have been unable to source accurate photos to confirm this.
5) In relation to grilles, I would like to add the following points. Firstly the HX and HZ grilles are actually made out of black plastic and were not painted as Warren denoted. At one stage Rare Spares were actually selling the GTS Black HZ grille inserts for about $120.00 I think. Additionally, I have inspected several undamaged original HX Sandman Vans and Utilities that were actually fitted with HJ GTS grilles including the GTS badge. I have no idea as to why this was the case but I have seen too many HXs with these grilles for it to be coincidence.
Hope people find this information interesting. I would love to hear from anyone who has pictures of a genuine factory fitted GTS front on a HX Sandman. Keep up the good work!!
Cheers,
Fletch
HK1837 Offline
#30 Posted : Thursday, 16 June 2005 5:09:52 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
Thanks for the help, particularly the stripe info - I want to fix this up on the site. Ive got to do some more homework on the HZ and GTS guards thing. This info came from an extremely reliable source. As far as front are concerned, a Sandman is basically the commercial equivalent of a GTS, hence it got a GTS nose. In HX that means a single headlight front. In HZ its a twin. I dont know why HX & HZ lost the guards. In relation to your ute having what is a Premier/Statesman nose in a HX, such things were commonly done by a dealer, and hence the belief that it was there from new. The one with the Statesman front is extremely odd though. A Sandman without stripes is simply a DL7 option - not uncommon. There is a one owner example around the corner from me.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Guest
#31 Posted : Thursday, 16 June 2005 6:24:20 PM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
Fletch, I am unsure as to if the grilles are painted or not this is a quote straight from the GMH ordering procedure sheets for the HZ.

I, like you, also beleive the GTS guards would not be fitted, although all leads must be followed. maybe the one with SLE wheels you mentioned, if the build date of this car could be found it would clear up this point.

GTS badging wouldnot be unussual on these cars as many dealers did things to make the cars more desirable. I know a fellow who purchased a HX GTS and when he picked it up it had an HQ GTS horn cap. The car was on the dealership floor for a period of time and the dealer must have wanted to "dress" it up a little. I also met a fellow last weekend who has an HJ GTS coupe with Stateman front from the "factory" but more likely the dealer. Even my brothers HJ LS has some dealer items on it.

Warren
HK1837 Offline
#32 Posted : Thursday, 16 June 2005 7:07:33 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
The SL/E were fitted from the 23/3/79, according to the HZ features manual.
The one owner Sandman I spoke of in the last post had aftermarket mags fitted by the dealer.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
gts082 Offline
#33 Posted : Thursday, 16 June 2005 8:09:33 PM(UTC)
gts082

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 104

well done,great info,cheers sam
Guest
#34 Posted : Thursday, 16 June 2005 11:15:38 PM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
Interesting that the features manual states that, as the last batch of GTS sedans was built in 2/79 and one in 3/79. the 3/79 had them but I know that the 2/79s also had them. There were no GTSs made after this date.

Warren
Guest
#35 Posted : Friday, 17 June 2005 2:25:30 AM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
Nice work guys,
1) Warren, with regard to the grilles they were definitely black plastic I have a NOS HZ example in my shed to prove it. I also probably have a copy of the rare spares catalogue listing this from around 12 years ago if I can find it!! I have an original HJ black plastic GTS grille fitted with GTS logo that was fitted to an unmodified HX Sandman I purchased a long time ago (it may have been fitted by the dealer I wouldnt know except to say that the front this vehicle had not been damaged. ie., the grille had probably not been replaced). I have been told that some of the HX grilles were manufactured out of black plastic and then painted grey. I will check this out further!! I definitely know that HX and HZ grilles were both made out of grey plastic for Kingswoods etc.,
2)You guys seem to have a better idea than me as to the changeover time to SL/E wheels. I cant be sure when this guy purchased his but I will check through my emails, I think it was a QLD based ute, one owner. I am sure that it was getting toward the end of the HZ Sandmans production (whenever this was in 79).
3) With regard to the Statesman front end I have seen, this was indeed quite peculiar. I was told that they simply walked this front from one part of the factory to another and fitted it to this van. Given that it had the original decals on the guards and the paint was not blended or reprayed this seems to suggest it was fitted by the factory. I probably dont know enough to comment in this area, could this have been possible?
4) I have also been going crazy thinking further about the blue/purple colour scheme listed for the HZ. I remembered when we first collected samples (around 10 years ago) that we were very suprised to find that a NOS version of what we thought was plum, purple, dark blue actually had the outer colours reversed when we compared it against the Green Van featured in the HX brochure (with the drum kit etc. hanging out of it!). Furthermore, this colour scheme did not feature the distinctive plum (pinky) colour (Yes I am aware these brochures are over exposed but our colour wasnt even close!). Now this has got me thinking quite a bit!! Because, the outer two colours in this sample which we matched and can be seen on Alanas Kermit Green Panelvan are really different shades of purple. Additionally, I can clearly remember the backing of the NOS decal set we used to match our colours from was newer than other NOS samples I had at the time. It was whiter in colour but I also vaguely recall it had a slightly different 3M logo on it. This may suggest it was made later ie., around the time of HZ. Mmmmmmmmm. Is what we have reproduced really the purple, dark blue colour scheme from HZs? God, if only I had bought this set of decals!! At the time the guy would not part with them. They were definitely genuine and were stored in their boxes with the part nos on them. Thinking seriously about this I suspect we have reproduced the plum, dark blue colour scheme and mistakenly thought it was the plum, purple, dark blue (based on the fat it had three colours and was similar in colour to plum/ purple/ dark blue). I would be happy to send you a sample if you are interested Byron.
5)One question, I have been told that the HQ-J decals were also available in dark metallic blue colour. I certainly havent seen or have any evidence of this, and dismissed it as myth (perhpas a faded set or something). But I wondered whether either of you guys had heard or seen of examples of this.

I am doing some more hunting for original decal samples, so I will see if I can track down the HX-Z blue/purple colour scheme to confirm this either way. This will be a mighty task, but I will see how I go.

If only (I had bought all the NOS decals I could have), if only (I had taken photos of what my eyes have seen), back when I developed an interest in Sandmans they were so uncool!!

Keep up the good work

Cheers,

Fletch
Guest
#36 Posted : Friday, 17 June 2005 2:49:21 AM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
Guys check out these links.

http://www.sandmanowners...rs/alannap/newdecals.jpg

http://www.sandmanowners...embers/alannap/after.jpg

Oh boy!!! I think we have actually been making the Blue/ Purple colour scheme listed for the HZ all along!!! The outer two colours are defintely shades of purple in my opinion. What isnt answered is why Holden have only listed the two colours Blue/Purple when for other decal sets (e.g., bright yellow, light orange, orange) they have designated different shades (and names) of the same colour.
Sandman Owners please dont write to me if you have applied your set to the van. I will assume you are happy, as we have certainly not had any sets returned or requests for refunds. Further to this, we have made the most meagre amount of money from all this work and are now investing this into making HQ-J decals.

Incidentally, we are going to make plum, purple, dark blue sets in the current batch but have discontinued the colour sample featured in the above links.

This is really interesting!! All I need to do now is to get a hold of that sample. Geeezzz.

Cheers,

Fletch
Guest
#37 Posted : Friday, 17 June 2005 6:50:35 PM(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 43,977

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
Fletch,

On point 3 when the car is manufactured the front and guards are painted seperately. They are fitted after things like the motor etc are fitted. So if a dealer ordered a front apron etc and had it painted and fitted there would be no need to blend it in. The guards etc are all the same.

As for taking it from one side of the line to the other, they all come down the one line, there were not seperate lines for seperate models. If there was there would be no need to indicate the type of guards fitted on the production broadcast. (the guards are different due to drillings for badges, done before painting)

I do not doubt the grilles were black plastic, would help with stone chips.

Sorry but I cannot answer your other questions.

Warren
Sandman Offline
#38 Posted : Tuesday, 5 July 2005 9:12:41 AM(UTC)
Sandman

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/07/2005(UTC)
Posts: 349

quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich
Ive downloaded the initial web page for Sandman identification for all to look at and praise/rubbish as you see fit. This page and the rest of the site will stay static for a while and will expand as more info comes to hand and I get the time. Please tell me if you have proof that anything of what I have written is not fact. Everything on the Sandman page is either supported by or derived from documentation (normally GM-H), but I am aware of conflicting info from multiple sources. Theres a picture of my HZ Overlander on the site as well for those interested (bigger version of the one on my profle).
www.monaroparts.com
Sandman Offline
#39 Posted : Tuesday, 5 July 2005 9:19:44 AM(UTC)
Sandman

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/07/2005(UTC)
Posts: 349

Hi, I like any info I can get on Sandmans. I have a HQ Sandman ute. 5/74 Im the third owner and known most of its history since new. Ive owned it since 1989. Its saffron, originally with a 308 and 4 speed. At present its away getting painted and I want to fully restore it. I was told there were only 66 HQ Sandman utes built, does anyone know how right this is? I emailed GMH and they dont have any info on it
HK1837 Offline
#40 Posted : Tuesday, 5 July 2005 6:03:03 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,569

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 480 time(s) in 458 post(s)
If its a Belmont and Saffron metallic then you have a Sandman. GMH have no records of how many they made, supposedly. The build records dont help either as they dont distinguish between a Sandman and a Belmont/Kingswood.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Users browsing this topic
Guest (5)
61 Pages<1234>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.333 seconds.