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castellan Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 2:31:43 AM(UTC)
castellan

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I was looking through a XU-1 book and this is my take in then .
The first month or so they came out with a cam p/n 2815739 then from 3/9/1970 this cam was retarded to give better performance up top.

The so called Bathurst LC XU-1 from 16/7/71 that only people in the know could get she has a bigger cam P/N 2822075 and she got the CK block prefix and had more power = 180 HP

The LJ 202 was on sale from 11/2/72 she gets a cam P/N 2823364 now this cam is the same as the 186 Bathurst but it is advanced for better street driving I would say.

From 29/8/72 we get the first LJ Bathurst special with a bigger cam P/N 9929247 and only 200 were made for people in the know.

From ?/8/73 another Bathurst special cam out and she gets a bigger in take valve better pistons rods same cam as 29/8/72

Anyone want to put your 2c worth in.
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 4:37:46 AM(UTC)
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Just some clarifications:

The CK prefix was simply because these engines followed the new HQ engine numbering and the engine numbers were in the HQ sequence. Same as all other LC engines past a certain date and also for HG commercial engines. The engines were different internally as you state, but I don't know how or what. They must have been a special run of blocks and heads though as neither of the items used were current specification - 186 had ceased production by that time.

I have heard that the 200 1972 cars were the cars that were supposed to be V8 XU1's.

Those last 150-151 cars probably didn't get the special cam from what i've heard, I think those were like L34 cams ie only those that needed them got them. Others may clarify more for you. From what I understand some of the special external to engine bits started to go on earlier than the last 151 cars, like headers, fine spline axles etc. There are build sheets showing that is was the case, however none of these cars got engines off the published list of 150 special engines. Some will tell you that the special engines started earlier but I don't subscribe to that theory.
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gm5735 Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 5:55:12 AM(UTC)
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I saw one of the later ones back in the day. It had a ribbed sump for the larger bearing caps, external oils lines and other little bits and pieces.
I was talking to "the man" about XU1 cams only a few weeks ago, and he reckoned Wades (who closed recently) did all the XU1 cams as specials for GMH. He was 2IC at Wades, so I reckon he'd be right.
castellan Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 7:36:59 AM(UTC)
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The CK 186 XU-1 engines came out when holden was making the 173 and 202.
I would like to know the casting dates of them CK blocks, and they had the old type heads not the new spark plug type.

XU-2 only 2 were made and never sold and don't exist any more.

The 1972-3 Bathurst cam is massive
Intake 55/90
Exhaust 94/51
Lift 0.456
106 over lap
That's too big for a street car let alone a production car.
Fine spline axels 15/8/73.
There is talk about a Borg Warner 78 star gears being used in the diff I would think it is what they are on about.
The book is Holden Torana GTR XU-1 by Fiv Antoniou.
castellan Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 7:58:07 AM(UTC)
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On page 196 mention of a axle shaft P/N 9934102 23 spline on 15/8/1973 from what I can work out with the gibberish.
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 5:45:03 PM(UTC)
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I think those CK blocks were cast post the end of 186. The heads are just like LJ XU1, and these were special cast too as far as I know.

Lots of XU2's were made, it is the option code for SLR5000. If you mean the V8 GTR's there were 3 made and two still are known to exist. From memory the pink one and the orange one were fitted with 202's and sold, the white one kept its V8. I know where the pnk one is, white one is reported to be alive. Orange one has not been sighted for a longtime.

Fine spline axles were fitted earlier than 15/8/73, I have build sheets for cars with them. It is the final spec engine (as shipped from the GMH engine plant) that appears to be unique to the last cars. The CAMS paperwork appears to be predictive in most aspects, but production reality is slightly different.

I think Fiv is talking about the detroit locker centres. My mate has on in his '73 final spec XU1.
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castellan Offline
#7 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 8:38:13 PM(UTC)
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I had the white one XU2.
HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 11:21:59 PM(UTC)
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I had a white XU2 as well, I wrecked it and cut it up - rust repair sections helped restore a few other LH's. It had some L34 gear through it too and I still have the calipers.
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Dr Terry Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, 18 August 2014 2:59:05 AM(UTC)
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According Harry's new book, 'Holden & I', there were 4 XU1 V8s built. There was the first one, his prototype, which was originally an LC GTR plus the 3 GM-H built ones that you've mentioned.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, 18 August 2014 4:53:14 PM(UTC)
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From what I understand too Terry he had a V8 in the Barney's Shirt LJ XU-1. It has the same tunnel mods as the surviving pink LJ GTR. Speculation is both cars had something other than an aussie 4spd in them (like a Muncie or Saginaw).
Was the yellow car raced at Bathurst at Easter 1972 a GTR? I thought it was an old race XU1.
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Dr Terry Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 18 August 2014 5:43:00 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
Was the yellow car raced at Bathurst at Easter 1972 a GTR? I thought it was an old race XU1.


I always understood that it was a GTR. When I spoke to Harry about the car when I first met him in 2004, he referred to it as an "old LC GTR ex-rally car".

Its rego number (KSN-116) is in a similar timeframe to other GTRs raced in early 1970, before the XU1's release date.

In regards to the gearbox, on page 53 of the new 'Holden & I' book, he calls it an "XU1 race gearbox (M-21)". I know that the XU1 close ratio box is not really called an M21, but that's what Harry called it, in the same way he calls the XU1 V8, an XU2.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 18 August 2014 5:49:38 PM(UTC)
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Cool.
The aussie 4spd V8 box in them was probably an M21, at least for mockup purposes.
The Barney's shirt XU1 and the pink GTR both have tunnel mods though that suggest something else other than an aussie 4spd was in them at some stage.
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castellan Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, 20 August 2014 7:40:31 PM(UTC)
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In Fiv Antoniou GTR XU-1 book I have found an balls up with the cam spec.
Page 114 LC Bathurst XU-1 cam is P/N 2822075
In 37/74
Ex 78/34
As in page 177 would have to be correct.
It comes across as the LJ XU-1 cam is just a LC Bathurst XU-1 cam that's advanced 6 deg. I was fooled that it was right as advancing it would give a better street driving manner.
But page 177 must be correct.
HK1837 Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, 20 August 2014 8:21:24 PM(UTC)
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I'm still looking for the reference for the other (bigger) cam available for '73 XU1's. I think it was like the L34 cam, ie not engine plant fitted, but sold to race teams.
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Dr Terry Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, 21 August 2014 12:38:03 AM(UTC)
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AFIAK the late 1973 XU1s which came with extractors etc. just used the XJ or XH cam.

There was no need for a larger cam as they were free anyway under the new (1973) touring car rules.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
castellan Offline
#16 Posted : Thursday, 21 August 2014 2:57:01 AM(UTC)
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HX cam they are called.
Nothing to do with HX holdens.
I have never seen a HYD cam that big. no mention of it being a solid cam.
HK1837 Offline
#17 Posted : Thursday, 21 August 2014 4:52:42 PM(UTC)
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XJ is the cam I was talking about, I think XH is the normal XU1 cam. Will keep looking.
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Dr Terry Offline
#18 Posted : Thursday, 21 August 2014 5:53:33 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by castellan
HX cam they are called.


I've heard this debated for many years. AFAIK the 2 LJ XU1 camshafts are stamped XJ & XH. The latter reads HX if it's read upside down, which in isolation is easy to do, it still looks correct.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
gm5735 Offline
#19 Posted : Thursday, 21 August 2014 8:06:21 PM(UTC)
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You have to laugh. The age old mystery of the HX camshaft solved by one person thinking outside the box and standing on their head....
HK1837 Offline
#20 Posted : Friday, 22 August 2014 1:10:35 AM(UTC)
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I noticed a while back that the 10/71 LC parts catalogue lists the XH camshaft (2822075) for the 186X engine (also lists 2815739 against 186X), I assume this is for 3100X engine (ealrl) and XH for the CK engine. But it lists the 2850S engine as getting an XH camshaft. The 2600S engine is listed with 7428531 which is just the HK 186S cam. So if this is true the 2850S engine would have been a screamer with that cam and a 2 barrel on it, must have been lumpy as hell.
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