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Tonyl66 Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, 18 July 2016 2:10:08 AM(UTC)
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Do the 3947040 heads have the accessory holes to mount the alternator on the driver’s side head as per the HT & HG GTS350 configuration?

HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, 18 July 2016 6:56:58 AM(UTC)
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No, 3947040 are Tonawanda's 1968 version of the Saginaw plant's 3917291. Both are the same thing just from the two US SBC foundries just different casting number and mark. 3947041 is the 1969 version with the accessory holes, again the Tonawanda version of the Saginaw 3927186.
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Tonyl66 on 19/07/2016(UTC)
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#3 Posted : Saturday, 6 August 2016 6:49:47 PM(UTC)
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Hello Byron.

So 3947041 is correct type two HK drivers' side head? What is correct for left side?

Cheers Nick.

Edited by user Saturday, 6 August 2016 6:50:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"HOLDEN MONARO. OUT TO DRIVE YOU WILD!"
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 6 August 2016 7:10:22 PM(UTC)
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No, 041 is the Tonawanda version of a 186 Fuelie, which is why they are on HT GTS350 manual engines. The HDT engines at Bathurst 1969 had Flint engines hence why they had 186 heads. These are all 64cc heads.
The Canadian GTS327 heads are 75cc low comp 188 heads. Tonawanda GTS327 290 heads are 69cc.
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castellan Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 10 August 2016 9:46:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
No, 041 is the Tonawanda version of a 186 Fuelie, which is why they are on HT GTS350 manual engines. The HDT engines at Bathurst 1969 had Flint engines hence why they had 186 heads. These are all 64cc heads.
The Canadian GTS327 heads are 75cc low comp 188 heads. Tonawanda GTS327 290 heads are 69cc.


I thought that the HT 350 GTS engine came from Holden factory and then you got an option after you bought the car to up grade to the 186 heads and had them fitted.
No car that your Jo Blow could buy came factory with 186 heads.

Your saying that the HT race cars came with full Flint engines for HDT ? if they did I don't think the rest of the race cars would be Flint engines.

Why would the option of the 186 over the 041 if they were the same head casting totally but only the casting plant difference ? maybe springs or valves are better quality ? the GT-HO got better valves, the same size but with the 3 ring collets for high rev reliability.

I think there was a cam up grade with that 186 head package you could go for and the air filter mode came out the same time as this package.
So Jo Blow buys a HT GTS350 4speed when they first came out and gets info on the up grade some months later from Holden, most take the air filter mod only, because the later HT 350 comes with the new air filter, but the heads and cam cost $ but some go for the heads and not the cam and a few go cam and all, as far as I have been lead to believe that's the way it went.
abi Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, 10 August 2016 3:23:22 PM(UTC)
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I think the Flint '186' heads were available as an over-the-counter replacement part for 350 manuals but not likely as a performance upgrade, just replacement part. I'd be very surprised a cam upgrade was available from Holden. GM at the time listed only one higher performing hydraulic cam and it powered the the 350HP 69 and 70 year model Corvettes and some 325HP passenger cars. 224deg/224deg @50 114deg LSA 450/460 lift rings a bell. This would be the only cam upgrade offered at the time but I doubt Holden would have gone down this path.
Adrian
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#7 Posted : Wednesday, 10 August 2016 4:31:29 PM(UTC)
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... pretty sure anything to do with less CC in the combustion chamber is all to do with a slightly raised compression pressure with the attendant "boost" in engine efficiency, and if the "186" heads were fitted to the race cars, it had to be at least a modicum of help for a slight performance edge
HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, 14 August 2016 1:37:34 AM(UTC)
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Nope to all. 041 are simply Tonawanda heads, just like 040 from 1968. They are identical and interchangeable with 186 and 291 respectively from Saginaw (Flint assembly). Same part numbers. Same thing with 290 and 032 heads, 290 are Tonawanda and 032 are McKinnon Industries. They too are identical. After 1969 this stopped as there was a big restructure and all foundries and engine assembly came under the one dept rather than being separated. Essentially the first step towards GM Powertrain I guess. After 1969, St Catharine's engines are true Chevrolet engines. 1969 and prior (called McKinnon Industries at that stage) engines from Canada aren't Chevrolet engines as McKinnon was not a Chevrolet facility at that stage - they built SBC design engines for Studebaker, Holden, Mercruiser, Pontiac etc. This is why the rocker covers are blank (HK-HT 307 for example).
GMH had 3 x factory blueprinted engines sent over from the USA for the 1969 HDT cars. They were Flint sourced, just used Flint casting numbered parts, and this is why the 186 heads appear in the HT parts catalogue amendment. It is simply Harry Firth arse covering to make sure if someone spotted a difference they were covered. You can even see this if you have a copy of either that amendment or I think the HG parts catalogue, GMH used the 3927186 cast number as the part number. These heads use the same part number as the 041 heads - there was no need to do this other than to arse cover.
The only higher performance heads used are the St Catharine's cast 370 heads on the last HG 350 manuals, These share the larger 172cc inlet ports with the old 461X heads, all other fuelies had 164cc inlet ports.

There was no GMH sanctioned can upgrade afaik. I can tell you though that a dead stock HT 350M engine fitted with 186 heads and the 350/350hp hydraulic cam puts out about 325hp (25hp increase over stock engine). The 350/350hp Corvette engine had in addition to this 2.02/1.6 valves and lumpy top Pistons from memory.
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HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, 14 August 2016 1:37:55 AM(UTC)
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Nope to all. 041 are simply Tonawanda heads, just like 040 from 1968. They are identical and interchangeable with 186 and 291 respectively from Saginaw (Flint assembly). Same part numbers. Same thing with 290 and 032 heads, 290 are Tonawanda and 032 are McKinnon Industries. They too are identical. After 1969 this stopped as there was a big restructure and all foundries and engine assembly came under the one dept rather than being separated. Essentially the first step towards GM Powertrain I guess. After 1969, St Catharine's engines are true Chevrolet engines. 1969 and prior (called McKinnon Industries at that stage) engines from Canada aren't Chevrolet engines as McKinnon was not a Chevrolet facility at that stage - they built SBC design engines for Studebaker, Holden, Mercruiser, Pontiac etc. This is why the rocker covers are blank (HK-HT 307 for example).
GMH had 3 x factory blueprinted engines sent over from the USA for the 1969 HDT cars. They were Flint sourced, just used Flint casting numbered parts, and this is why the 186 heads appear in the HT parts catalogue amendment. It is simply Harry Firth arse covering to make sure if someone spotted a difference they were covered. You can even see this if you have a copy of either that amendment or I think the HG parts catalogue, GMH used the 3927186 cast number as the part number. These heads use the same part number as the 041 heads - there was no need to do this other than to arse cover.
The only higher performance heads used are the St Catharine's cast 370 heads on the last HG 350 manuals, These share the larger 172cc inlet ports with the old 461X heads, all other fuelies had 164cc inlet ports.

There was no GMH sanctioned cam upgrade afaik. I can tell you though that a dead stock HT 350M engine fitted with 186 heads and the 350/350hp hydraulic cam puts out about 325hp (25hp increase over stock engine). The 350/350hp Corvette engine had in addition to this 2.02/1.6 valves and lumpy top Pistons from memory.

Edited by user Sunday, 14 August 2016 1:42:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

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abi Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 19 August 2016 11:00:28 PM(UTC)
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"There was no GMH sanctioned can upgrade afaik. I can tell you though that a dead stock HT 350M engine fitted with 186 heads and the 350/350hp hydraulic cam puts out about 325hp (25hp increase over stock engine). The 350/350hp Corvette engine had in addition to this 2.02/1.6 valves and lumpy top Pistons from memory."

The 350/350 Corvette engine and the 325/350 passenger car engines were the same bar the 2.5 rams horn exhaust compared to the 2.0 passenger car manifolds. Same pop top pistons, cam, valve size etc.

Edited by user Friday, 19 August 2016 11:02:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, 19 August 2016 11:21:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: abi Go to Quoted Post
"There was no GMH sanctioned can upgrade afaik. I can tell you though that a dead stock HT 350M engine fitted with 186 heads and the 350/350hp hydraulic cam puts out about 325hp (25hp increase over stock engine). The 350/350hp Corvette engine had in addition to this 2.02/1.6 valves and lumpy top Pistons from memory."

The 350/350 Corvette engine and the 325/350 passenger car engines were the same bar the 2.5 rams horn exhaust compared to the 2.0 passenger car manifolds. Same pop top pistons, cam, valve size etc.


Yes I know that. I never mentioned the 350/325 engine. I was talking about a HT350M with 186 heads and 350/350 camshaft.

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castellan Offline
#12 Posted : Saturday, 20 August 2016 1:19:15 PM(UTC)
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The air filter and cam and head up grade are mentioned on this forum some years ago.
HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 22 August 2016 2:04:07 AM(UTC)
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See if you can find it again, I've never heard of a cam upgrade sanctioned by GMH, doesn't mean some dealers didn't do it.
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