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Flem Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 22 October 2016 8:29:17 PM(UTC)
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Dr Terry posed Questions on factory standards.
Could I pose the question : What are some of the factory faults or anomalies that have turned up or you have come across where the car was just not designed to leave the factory that way.
i.e. Wrong part, missing part, extras parts or peculiar processes. Plus how common or rare and how often that may have occurred.
Just a little example; The date stamp on my HK front X member has been stamped twice.
What should have been 5 H 8 is 55HH88 it looks like the stamp or die has hit once then moved sideways about 5mm and stamped again.

Flem
commodorenut Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 22 October 2016 10:29:58 PM(UTC)
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Warren has a few examples of tag stamping anomalies, and I've seen a few too. But considering how many tags we've looked at, the error rate is very, very low.

When a chassis number is accidentally duplicated, they put an R on the end. The next duplication gets an R1, then R2 etc.
I came across a VL in the wreckers one day that was stamped AVLxxxxxxMR12 - so 13 of them(or maybe more) were stamped with the same chassis number.

Almost as good (but not a factory problem) of the tale where the NSW RTA had an issue with a stack of duplicated engine numbers popping up.
The number in question was actually the firing order, not the stamped engine number......

Cheers,

Mick
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abi Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, 22 October 2016 11:38:35 PM(UTC)
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My fathers couple year old FJ Special was sent out of the factory with all the gudgeon pin cir clips missing. Ran ok but noticed the bore damage when he removed the head for a decoke and valve lap.
All the 48,s and early FJ's suffered an annoying drumming noise when in motion, the dealer fix was a wooden mallet blow to a very specific spot on the fire wall.
We love our Holdens but they were a bit sh!t in the early days.
Flem Offline
#4 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 12:24:37 AM(UTC)
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Mick that date stamp 5 H 8 ended with a D or DD as it was in this case. What would the D indicate ?.
Flem
wbute Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 6:53:02 AM(UTC)
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Had a HJ XX7 Sandman shell. The seating capacity was stamped 3 and then RE-stamped over 2.
detective Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 9:55:41 AM(UTC)
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All the Holden utes and vans had an anomaly in the body side panels up until mid/late 1954 when the problem was finally fixed. The crease line up high (just under where the tarp posts would screw on) was shorter at the rearmost point left side to right by about 7 inches...just a glitch in the tooling up at the time I'd suspect, and was rectified when the rear shock absorber positioning and other small sheet metal details were modified at that time.
commodorenut Offline
#7 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 10:36:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Flem Go to Quoted Post
Mick that date stamp 5 H 8 ended with a D or DD as it was in this case. What would the D indicate ?.
Flem
I'm not really up to speed on pre-Commodore stuff (others know far more).
There's 2 variations I've found in commodores - when a specific day is not stamped, they used a letter to denote the week of the month - A being week 1, B being week 2 etc. Very rare, but there are some E's out there.
On some Elizabeth stampings they also had an L in addition to the date stamp, denoting the plant.

Cheers,

Mick
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Warren Turnbull Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 11:18:33 AM(UTC)
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Next time you see an HG Monaro or non GTS HT Monaro look at the location of the Monaro badges on the 1/4 panels. Luckily you do not see both sides of the car at the same time.

Seen a 1 tonner with seating capacity 6 on the compliance plate. (the list is very long here of body ID, VIN and compliance plate errors)

Know of a VN Lexcen that was sent to the dealer with a Holden horn button and the dealer would not let the owner take delivery until a Toyota one was fitted.

There is a story of an LC/J Torana being made at Acacia Ridge with a 4 door 1/4 on one side and 2 door 1/4 on the other.

V2 Monaros have a crease near the rear 1/4 window.

Warren

Flem Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 8:07:41 PM(UTC)
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Of course there are major changes or decisions made to overcome some anomalies i.e too many bodies so end up with an LE Monaro or not enough engines to for HK monaro.
edelbrock1 Offline
#10 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 8:14:40 PM(UTC)
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When I was working on the line back in the VR era. The SS cars were not meant to get the Brake light on the parcel shelf, as it was in the boot spoiler. But being a lazy young prick, I didnt read the build sheet, I just put one in every sedan. Quite a few got picked up and I had to pull em out. I often wondered if they all got discovered and pulled out, or if some made it through and made it out onto the street. :)

Edited by user Sunday, 23 October 2016 8:15:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

8D11PCH2 Offline
#11 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 8:19:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post

There is a story of an LC/J Torana being made at Acacia Ridge with a 4 door 1/4 on one side and 2 door 1/4 on the other.

Warren



The story goes it was an LJ and it was built on purpose to see how far down the line it would get before it was noticed.
I believe the car made it to the trim line.
commodorenut Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, 23 October 2016 9:25:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: edelbrock1 Go to Quoted Post
When I was working on the line back in the VR era. The SS cars were not meant to get the Brake light on the parcel shelf, as it was in the boot spoiler. But being a lazy young prick, I didnt read the build sheet, I just put one in every sedan. Quite a few got picked up and I had to pull em out. I often wondered if they all got discovered and pulled out, or if some made it through and made it out onto the street. :)
You'd hope the guy putting the trim panel in would have selected the correct one (not cut for a brake light) and would have picked up every brake light fitted......

And it's funny now how the young guys are ripping those boot spoilers off SS & XR6 models, to replace them with a lip (or no spoiler) and are now retro-fitting rear window brake lights from "lesser spec" models....

Cheers,

Mick
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detective Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 24 October 2016 7:05:37 AM(UTC)
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There were a whole heap of TSB's issued for all kinds of reasons right through every Holden model as they popped up and became a problem. I don't think there were many factory faults or anomalies that were let go for an entire model run...completely overlooked by the QC staff scrutinising the finish and fit as they came off the line.

...I guess an I.D plate mistake can be put down to human error at the point of stamping, but ongoing production faults were a succession of processes overlooked.

Edited by user Monday, 24 October 2016 8:48:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, 24 October 2016 7:44:44 AM(UTC)
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I've seen heaps of ID tag and engine number errors, a few below:

Horizontal part of L missing on the L from the VIN plate station at Pagewood during HQ, so lots of HQ's from Pagewood with an I as the engine designator.

An Elizabeth assembled HZ van with the VIN tag off a consecutive car on it, so the BODY number and VIN tag PSN out by one digit, tags were put on arse about in the assembly plant, imagine the Service and Warranty nightmare with this one for those two vans - even the mechanical build configurations for both was different.

A HT GTS350 with a 308M engine number prefix but still had the assembly plant's SBC number sequence number. Was even on the Owner's books as 308M.


The one that will surprise people is the original Service/Warranty reports on 'fiche. These are full of human entry errors. The actual build information, as in what was in the IBM prior to manufacture is just about always correct, but the stuff done later like engine number, credited selling dealer, sales date etc is full of errors. The engine numbers alone are wrong on a large % of vehicles, as an example I've counted I think 7 of the 150 list 1973 XU1's with a wrong engine number recorded against it, some are mis-typed digits, others are numbers against the wrong car.
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8D11PCH2 Offline
#15 Posted : Monday, 24 October 2016 7:53:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: commodorenut Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: edelbrock1 Go to Quoted Post
When I was working on the line back in the VR era. The SS cars were not meant to get the Brake light on the parcel shelf, as it was in the boot spoiler. But being a lazy young prick, I didnt read the build sheet, I just put one in every sedan. Quite a few got picked up and I had to pull em out. I often wondered if they all got discovered and pulled out, or if some made it through and made it out onto the street. :)
You'd hope the guy putting the trim panel in would have selected the correct one (not cut for a brake light) and would have picked up every brake light fitted......

And it's funny now how the young guys are ripping those boot spoilers off SS & XR6 models, to replace them with a lip (or no spoiler) and are now retro-fitting rear window brake lights from "lesser spec" models....



The rear screen is different between models with the high level brake light and those without is it not?
Shearer Offline
#16 Posted : Monday, 24 October 2016 10:18:23 AM(UTC)
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Does human error continue into the VN era?

I have pics of a VG ute body plate which has VN8VK80-XXX, instead of VGVK80-XXX. Even the compliance plate has 'HOLDEN VN P/CAR', but the VIN starts with 6H8VKG80---------.

Strangly enough, the plates are stamped with a die, not the typical dot matrix VN.
edelbrock1 Offline
#17 Posted : Monday, 24 October 2016 3:31:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: commodorenut Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: edelbrock1 Go to Quoted Post
When I was working on the line back in the VR era. The SS cars were not meant to get the Brake light on the parcel shelf, as it was in the boot spoiler. But being a lazy young prick, I didnt read the build sheet, I just put one in every sedan. Quite a few got picked up and I had to pull em out. I often wondered if they all got discovered and pulled out, or if some made it through and made it out onto the street. :)
You'd hope the guy putting the trim panel in would have selected the correct one (not cut for a brake light) and would have picked up every brake light fitted......

And it's funny now how the young guys are ripping those boot spoilers off SS & XR6 models, to replace them with a lip (or no spoiler) and are now retro-fitting rear window brake lights from "lesser spec" models....



But what if the guy putting in the parcel shelf was just as lazy as me. He looks inside the car, sees the rear brake light and selects the parcel self for the brake light. hahhaha

Something to watch out for now you know that it is a possibility. :)
commodorenut Offline
#18 Posted : Monday, 24 October 2016 7:10:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 8D11PCH2 Go to Quoted Post
The rear screen is different between models with the high level brake light and those without is it not?

Depends on the car & model. Commodores from VT-VZ had a different rear glass for the SS (and other models with boot spoiler mounted brake lights, like HSVs). The black mask continued over the 3rd brake light opening in the rear glass when it wasn't needed. So to retro-fit a window mounted 3rd brake light, you need to change the glass. And there are young blokes who have spent big $$ getting the glass changed when they have "de-spoilered" the car - usually at the same time as they fit a lower lip kit from an SS or HBD catalogue, and hook up the invisible caravan that drops the rear down about 5 inches......

VR/VS brake lights sat above the mask level of the glass, but had the shelf curve up & over them. SS & HSVs with spoiler mounted brake lights simply had an uncut parcel shelf placed in there, and the globe holder taped up, allowing a later retro-fit simply by fitting the brake light assembly, and cutting the shelf to suit (or using a pre-cut shelf). The bulb is then plug & play in the previously redundant holder.

BA, BF & FG Falcons are the same - the shelf is left uncut, and a brake light isn't fitted to cars with a brake light in the boot spoiler. But retro-fitting is just the same as a VR or VS.

Holden made it easy from VE onwards - the 3rd brake light moved to the top of the rear window, so no matter if you have a boot spoiler or not, it stays the same - simplifying the part count, and assembly process.


Originally Posted by: edelbrock1 Go to Quoted Post
But what if the guy putting in the parcel shelf was just as lazy as me. He looks inside the car, sees the rear brake light and selects the parcel self for the brake light. hahhaha

Something to watch out for now you know that it is a possibility. :)

Yes, it would be, but if he read the sheet (to pick the right colour) he should wise up.... isn't that one of the reasons the unions tell us that "highly skilled" auto-assemblers have to be paid so much more than general factory hands?
Cheers,

Mick
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