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Tour Director Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 7 December 2016 10:52:59 AM(UTC)
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• Next-generation Commodore built in Germany on all-new architecture shared with Opel Insignia
• Lightweight construction methods result in approx. 200kg weight saving compared to current VF
• Flagship model offers V6 AWD drivetrain with Holden-first 9-speed transmission delivering 230kW / 370Nm while being super-efficient thanks to Stop/Start tech and Active Fuel Mgmt.
• 2.0T petrol and 2.0T diesel front-wheel drive models also coming to Australia, available in Liftback and Sportwagon body-styles
• Cutting-edge, adaptive all-wheel-drive system with torque vectoring and twin-clutch (‘Twinster’) rear differential system
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 7 December 2016 11:16:15 AM(UTC)
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No V8, no interest. My guess is it'll be a flop. I hope not but we'll see.
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HGV8 Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 7 December 2016 3:42:54 PM(UTC)
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Looks like we won't be getting the V6 twin turbo.
The lose of sales of the Holden V8 and commodore based commercial vehicles, which was a fair share of the market, can't do anything other then affect Holden's market share.
All this, I believe will eventually make a Holden a very small player in the local market.

Jim
j.williams
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 7 December 2016 3:52:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HGV8 Go to Quoted Post
Looks like we won't be getting the V6 twin turbo.
The lose of sales of the Holden V8 and commodore based commercial vehicles, which was a fair share of the market, can't do anything other then affect Holden's market share.
All this, I believe will eventually make a Holden a very small player in the local market.

Jim


Last I heard their V8 sales are higher than V6. Unless they make themselves different like an LS3 Colorado or import RHD C and K trucks they will shrink to nothing.

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Lingus Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 7 December 2016 4:51:11 PM(UTC)
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I tend to think the same fellas ... Holden's latest M.D., Mark Bernhard, has at least watered down the gung-ho rhetoric of Gerry Dorizas regarding where the company will be by 2020.

I can't see Toyota, Mazda or Hyundai slipping down the pole and that makes it all the more difficult for the next rung of players to make ground ... those players being Holden, Ford, Mitsubishi and Nissan.

Australian car magazines, of which Wheels is the only real main game title, will have to adjust their style to be even more global ... whilst there will still be public interest in the Commodore nameplate, recent history suggests it will never again be anywhere near the title of Australia's top selling car ... what is it about a new Commodore that will set it apart from other cars of its medium-large type? ... it certainly won't be an available V8 engine option !

Back in mid-2014, one year after VF's introduction, Commodore V8s (SS, SS-V and Calais-V) accounted for 37% of all Commodore sales and I wouldn't be surprised to see that percentage even higher as we travel through 2017.

And so, I'm left wondering whether an Opel Insignia badged as a Holden Commodore will perhaps be viewed as too flash for a typical Commodore driver, and whether the nametag alone will help sustain private sales and also remain an attraction to business fleet buyers ?
Dr Terry Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, 7 December 2016 7:00:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Lingus Go to Quoted Post
.. what is it about a new Commodore that will set it apart from other cars of its medium-large type? ... it certainly won't be an available V8 engine option !


Yes, but a 230 kW V6 AWD doesn't sound that bad.

I'm on the fence with this whole thing. Let's have a look at what Holden can supply the market at what price, with what features, before we just write them off.

Holden have a good name & a large dealer network, so at least give them a chance.

It is still over a year away.

A few things to ponder, history is a very interesting thing. The original FX was not a small Chev, it was a to be be next Opel Olympia, before WWII happened. Also the last time GM-H had a 'real' crisis we got the VB Commodore. The connect between Holden & Opel is often overlooked.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Wednesday, 7 December 2016 7:04:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Lingus Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 12:08:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lingus Go to Quoted Post
.. what is it about a new Commodore that will set it apart from other cars of its medium-large type? ... it certainly won't be an available V8 engine option !


Yes, but a 230 kW V6 AWD doesn't sound that bad.

I'm on the fence with this whole thing. Let's have a look at what Holden can supply the market at what price, with what features, before we just write them off.

Holden have a good name & a large dealer network, so at least give them a chance.

...


Dr Terry



Interestingly, although effectively in a run-out phase, you can buy a Holden Insignia VXR right now for around about $52K plus on road costs ... is it because it doesn't have a "Commodore" badge that makes it a slow seller, or is it because at that price bracket it is somewhat of an orphan ? ... it has a single-turbo V6 rated at 239kW, all wheel drive, Brembo brakes, Recaro seats and quite a few advanced technical aspects, but is overweight at 1,800kg and has no manual transmission availability ... despite its kW rating, it is apparently embarrassed in straight-line performance by the humble Toyota Aurion.

I'm sure that the new-generation 2018 car will outperform the current offering and with a broader range of models and all fitted with a familiar badge, there will be interest in the new Commodore ... but the medium-large passenger car market is not the place where you'll find big sales numbers, no matter what badge a car is wearing.

Edited by user Thursday, 8 December 2016 12:09:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling error

wbute Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 5:41:35 AM(UTC)
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What unique marketing advantage do they have anymore? Nothing that I can see. They will be lost in the sea of imported manufacturers now. Is HSV going to do anything to it?
Tour Director Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 6:27:24 AM(UTC)
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When Holden changed to the Commodore they buried the KINGSWOOD. Why not bury the Commodore? It may even improve the future value of those collected now. The most sales expected between now & closure will be for V8, that is why they closed down the 6 engine plant. The Calais is not a big seller so it may be dropped earlier in preference to the higher performers.
HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 8:16:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tour Director Go to Quoted Post
When Holden changed to the Commodore they buried the KINGSWOOD. Why not bury the Commodore? It may even improve the future value of those collected now. The most sales expected between now & closure will be for V8, that is why they closed down the 6 engine plant. The Calais is not a big seller so it may be dropped earlier in preference to the higher performers.


That is a big misconception Greg that has been spruiked incorrectly by journalists for years. The Commodore never replaced the Kingswood. Kingswood was a luxury/trim level of the Holden car and Holden commercials. Commodore was a whole car line like Torana, and was sold alongside the Holden (including Kingswoods) and Torana (and Gemini and Sunbird and Statesman) car lines. The Kingswood itself didn't go away until the start of 1985, and the Holden passenger cars stayed right up until basically VC Commodore release early in 1980. I guess the correct terminology is the Commodore SL eventually replaced the Kingswood SL sedan and wagon, the Commodore L eventually replaced the Kingswood A9K sedan and wagon and the Commodore SL/E eventually replaced the Premier. If we talk about Holden and Kingswood utes that disappeared at the start of 1985 they were never replaced by Commodore. The WB Holden ute went away in 1985 and was replaced by the VG Holden ute in 1990, and the Kingswood ute was not really replaced by the VG S ute, it was more a re-birth of the Sandman than it was a Kingswood reincarnated.



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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
stevo Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 12:07:05 PM(UTC)
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Screw Holden they can fuck off and die GM duded Australians. Was 47 thousand pounds a lot of money in 1947? How much was Fishermans Bend sold for what happened to all the government money GM bleed from the Australian people now they want to send German cars here fuck off I couldn't give a shit about the new commodore I'm about at the point I don't really care about finishing my old holden GM sicken me that much.
Hay Politician theres a yank over there go suck it off you gave it everything else it took our money and fucked off.
wbute Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 12:38:30 PM(UTC)
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I agree Stevo. I couldn't care less about yet another imported car.
castellan Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 2:48:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: stevo Go to Quoted Post
Screw Holden they can fuck off and die GM duded Australians. Was 47 thousand pounds a lot of money in 1947? How much was Fishermans Bend sold for what happened to all the government money GM bleed from the Australian people now they want to send German cars here fuck off I couldn't give a shit about the new commodore I'm about at the point I don't really care about finishing my old holden GM sicken me that much.


Rubbish ! GM did a lot of good for Australia, one of the things was that GM did not really want to come to Australia in the first place as they thought the nation was to much of a socialist nation to bother with investing in, but it was the Aussie government made the right moves for such to become viable, not only with GM but all had an ability to have a go at making cars here, not to mention all the other stuff, stoves washer machines etc.

If Australia did not go down that path in the day, this nation would of been just a backward garbage dump of backward fools with bugger all hope of progress.

The New Commodore is coming from and made in China, not Germany and nothing is going to be made here.

Car manufactures invest a hell of lot of money making cars, they don't make a return on that money for years and then reinvest again on the next new model, they did not bleed us dry at all. it looks like they will in the future tho, that's for sure and what could we do about it then f all ! because we pissed everything up against the wall like all degenerates do.

All in all it's the Aussie voter that's been fooled and it's our government that have dropped the ball on the Voters rights too serve such people first and foremost, we are now being forced by the NWO our new big bro and our Vote means bugger all now, hell they even tell us how to think for f sake, with all this political correctness nonsense dribble and anyone who swallows that crap is truly a Nazi, Communist or some deranged moronic bastard and If you have conservative values this type of mongrel will cunningly come at you with all types of degenerate cunning, that's all the work of malice !

How many times have I heard some dip stick yobbo or the media and brainwashed uni degenerate good for nothing wimps pushing full on that the USA is not our friend, but then turn around and say that China is, Haha hell ! how naive can one be to look up to a bunch of parasite dictator types that just spin total crap.

Be proud we made Aussie cars, I sure am proud of it all !
stevo Offline
#14 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 3:04:05 PM(UTC)
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What did GM do for Australia this century? Apart from Bleed our government dry?
Hay Politician theres a yank over there go suck it off you gave it everything else it took our money and fucked off.
wbute Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 7:57:53 PM(UTC)
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Wow. As far as I can see GM ham strung Holden at nearly every corner. Knocked back car after car and then sent some useless sepo out to show us how it's done. Check out HQ to HX handling design by GM etc.
Chamberlain tractors was another Australian manufacturer that was wiped off the face of the earth by another US giant John Deere in the 80's.
The yanks have no reason to support our home grown designs and to think they stopped us being useless bogans is complete rubbish.
HK1837 Offline
#16 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 8:02:11 PM(UTC)
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I think you are misreading history a bit, wait until the story is told soon about the development of the GTS327 and how important it was to the head honchos in GM, it'll change your minds a bit!
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wbute Offline
#17 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 8:49:08 PM(UTC)
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I will just look at how important Holden is to GM in 2016. Not very as it turns out.
wbute Offline
#18 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 8:53:20 PM(UTC)
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And the big question... why is your font bigger than everyone else HK??
gm5735 Offline
#19 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 9:38:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: stevo Go to Quoted Post
What did GM do for Australia this century? Apart from Bleed our government dry?


Apart from thousands employed directly by the manufacturing facility, tens of thousands employed in the supply chain and service industries, the hundreds of engineers, technicians, drafters, tradespersons, and mechanics who gained experience training and education in advanced technologies, and the hundreds of millions of dollars of business and payg tax revenue collected, yes you're right of course. Nothing contributed.
Lingus Offline
#20 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 11:34:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I think you are misreading history a bit, wait until the story is told soon about the development of the GTS327 and how important it was to the head honchos in GM, it'll change your minds a bit!


I was only a primary school boy when the HK-series arrived, but I well remember my dad turning up with his brand new HK Kingswood wagon in two-tone Pyrmont Green / Grecian White ... 1967-68 must have been quite a watershed period for Holden, eschewing the Vauxhall brand in 1967 whilst at the same time adopting the second generation Viva as the Holden Torana ... and with the somewhat revolutionary HK-series of 1968, Holden launched two additional body styles in the Monaro and the Brougham and along with them the 307ci and 327ci V8s ... simultaneously, we also waved goodbye to local Chevrolet and Pontiac production ... it could be reasonably suggested that the Holden brand came of age in 1968.

Fifty years later ... ??
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