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HGV8 Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 13 December 2016 4:34:52 PM(UTC)
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These oddball Holden's pop up now and again and fascinate me.

Interesting read into how the original owner managed to order it.

https://www.australianmu...e-off-factory-build.html

Edited by user Tuesday, 13 December 2016 4:40:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

j.williams
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 13 December 2016 4:48:24 PM(UTC)
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I recall seeing that car at Warwick. Great thing, but I can't see it being worth more than an XW8 in the same condition as in the end those were essentially Kingswood sedans with an option package applied. This is exactly the same as if a GTR turned up with an XU1 driveline but wasn't an XU1, it should not command more $ than an XU1 in the same condition.
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HGV8 Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 13 December 2016 5:00:15 PM(UTC)
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I get what your saying.
My guess is someone will want it being a one off and nice one off it is too.
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HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 13 December 2016 5:18:42 PM(UTC)
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I'd love it, but not at that price!
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Dr Terry Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 13 December 2016 8:58:26 PM(UTC)
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It would be a much better car, without the crappy extractors, aftermarket dissy, blue HT leads & hydraulic clutch conversion.

Also, what's with the orange alternator bits & the polished headlight surrounds ?

At this price it should be a lot more authentic.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Sandaro Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 9:16:29 AM(UTC)
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Would it have been factory built or dealer constructed?
HK1837 Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 9:54:32 AM(UTC)
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Pagewood built. The dealer must have had influence to get it past the zone office.
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Sandaro Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 11:01:52 AM(UTC)
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The only part of the story in the ad that sounded unlikely to me was that the original owner picked it up from the Pagewood plant. And its not supported by the delivery record signed off by the dealer in Lismore. Would the plant really give a car out to someone like that, and then what he drives it up to Lismore to get the 'pre-delivery' done and handbook signed off?

I take it HK that you've seen or know of Pagewood records that the car came off the line as such.
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 11:24:36 AM(UTC)
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Yes. After the end of 1971 there were from memory 55 x 81837 manuals and 54 x 80469 XW8 manuals. This driveline was probably the 55th set for XW8. GMH had to split the remaining 350 manual sets in half at the end of 1971 for the rest of HQ, half to the 81837 and the other half to the upcoming GTS350 sedan. They were all gone by mid 1973.
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HGV8 Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 11:53:09 AM(UTC)
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There was another HQ Kingswood 350 at the all Holden day at Clarendon 3 years ago. It was also white.

Not sure if it was this same HQ but if my memory is correct it didn't have the sports rims and it was a auto.

I agree Terry, well worth getting rid of the updates and also that disc brake rear end.

Jim
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Dr Terry Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 12:50:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HGV8 Go to Quoted Post

I agree Terry, well worth getting rid of the updates and also that disc brake rear end.

Jim


I could live with the disc rear end as long as it was properly done. At least it's a factory part & probably an improvement.

Dr Terry
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justgm Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 3:36:26 PM(UTC)
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Just saw this HQ for sale today.....I agree why would anybody do that to the 350 , when the rest of the car is mint /original ....nice car but engine bay really lets it down. Also on Muscle cars figures for HQ 350 production are they just quoting Pagewood production ? as Dandenong built 4 x HQ 350 Premier wagons ? Mark.
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HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 3:57:02 PM(UTC)
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The figures aren't totally correct on the site.
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Warren Turnbull Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 5:44:36 PM(UTC)
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I can see a dealer telling zone office that he had the police in ordering a 350 manual car for pursuit work and that they wanted a sedan instead of a coupe. Zone office may have approved it and as said above, the car would have been sent to the dealer or to the police headquarters. But as signed off by the selling dealer why would he have picked it up.

Also it takes about 20 to 30 hours to build a car from nothing, so why would the security guard know what was on the line, he would have had to walk through the factory and known what he was looking at. I doubt a security guard who is issuing the keys the gate to a "special car" or manning the gate would also have time to wander around the assembly plant, and to know that the only other 350 sedan is being made that day. What about one that may have been made on his day off?

I do have a vague memory of talking to a fellow who had a 350 Kingswood sedan that was auto. I would have passed the details onto Ben at the time. From memory he had the original books for that car.

Warren
wbute Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 8:25:51 PM(UTC)
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Yeah some of the story seemed far fetched to me as well Warren but no doubt there is an element of truth there. You know how the story gets muddled over time. Imagine what it's going to be like in twenty years time the way Internet forums go. Not to mention the way information just gets lost.
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#16 Posted : Thursday, 15 December 2016 5:14:56 AM(UTC)
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A lot of it does seem far fetched....

2 examples that clearly don't add up:

" Having made numerous failed attempts to order the car through various dealerships "
So why did he go straight to Lismore after his shift? Sounds like it was the local dealer to him, so why did he make "numerous" attempts at various others?

" Still wearing his police uniform, the original owner placed the order and crossed his fingers. The dealership not knowing any better assumed the car was going to be used as a highway pursuit vehicle and agreed to take the order. "
This one is even more porky.
If a cop in uniform orders a car for the Police force, it will have a NSW Govt purchase order, and will be sold through the Govt supply channels that existed in the day.
A dealership will never assume it's for the Police force if a private individual is ordering it in their name.


And I'm not even going to start on picking it up from the plant, or the security guard's supposed super-human knowledge of the plant schedule for the entire HQ production period, as the guys above have already noted. More likely someone read through the production data that is now available to a select few, and concocted that rubbish to try to make the rest of the bullshit sound somewhat plausible...

These stories are getting more & more far fetched over time, and with a little logic, you can blow holes the size of Sydney Harbour in them.
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SLENUT on 16/12/2016(UTC)
8D11PCH2 Offline
#17 Posted : Thursday, 15 December 2016 12:19:33 PM(UTC)
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50k for the car and 50k for the pile of BS history. Sounds like a plan.

People seem to have an affinity with vehicles that had anything to do with the Police and their use thereof.Laugh

Edited by user Thursday, 15 December 2016 12:24:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

justgm Offline
#18 Posted : Thursday, 15 December 2016 3:33:46 PM(UTC)
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well ....when I purchased my HQ Premier S/W 350 , I was told by the seller that it was originally ordered by the South African consulate ! . On further investigation ( NZ Ownership Papers) I tracked down the original owner , who at the time owned a large transport company in Nelson with a lot of Bedford trucks , he said the HQ was ordered from the local agent(Wrightcars) and took ..."A long time to come" . So I still do not know how a car could be ordered when it did not exist as a model in the Holden line-up ? Mark.
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HK1837 Offline
#19 Posted : Thursday, 15 December 2016 7:00:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: justgm Go to Quoted Post
well ....when I purchased my HQ Premier S/W 350 , I was told by the seller that it was originally ordered by the South African consulate ! . On further investigation ( NZ Ownership Papers) I tracked down the original owner , who at the time owned a large transport company in Nelson with a lot of Bedford trucks , he said the HQ was ordered from the local agent(Wrightcars) and took ..."A long time to come" . So I still do not know how a car could be ordered when it did not exist as a model in the Holden line-up ? Mark.


It is a normal model, 81235. All the dealer had to do was fill out the bottom right hand corner of the order form where it says: OTHER OPTIONS Or Special Instructions. And then get it past the zone office. When you look at the initial options pricing released with a series, it lists option prices even if they weren't regularly available, for this exact reason. Basically anything that can be done from Engineering's perspective is priced, even if for example you couldn't get bucket seats and floor shift in a Belmont, a price is quoted.

Remember that 75%+ of vehicles sold were sold from dealer order bank, maybe even closer to 85%. Then dealers also ordered vehicles for stock. So only a small % are retail orders, and probably 90%+ of those retail orders are complaint with the regular options. So variations like this car are very rare. For these combined reasons you rarely see stuff like optional rear axle ratios, dual exhaust etc.
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castellan Online
#20 Posted : Friday, 16 December 2016 9:42:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: justgm Go to Quoted Post
well ....when I purchased my HQ Premier S/W 350 , I was told by the seller that it was originally ordered by the South African consulate ! . On further investigation ( NZ Ownership Papers) I tracked down the original owner , who at the time owned a large transport company in Nelson with a lot of Bedford trucks , he said the HQ was ordered from the local agent(Wrightcars) and took ..."A long time to come" . So I still do not know how a car could be ordered when it did not exist as a model in the Holden line-up ? Mark.


It is a normal model, 81235. All the dealer had to do was fill out the bottom right hand corner of the order form where it says: OTHER OPTIONS Or Special Instructions. And then get it past the zone office. When you look at the initial options pricing released with a series, it lists option prices even if they weren't regularly available, for this exact reason. Basically anything that can be done from Engineering's perspective is priced, even if for example you couldn't get bucket seats and floor shift in a Belmont, a price is quoted.

Remember that 75%+ of vehicles sold were sold from dealer order bank, maybe even closer to 85%. Then dealers also ordered vehicles for stock. So only a small % are retail orders, and probably 90%+ of those retail orders are complaint with the regular options. So variations like this car are very rare. For these combined reasons you rarely see stuff like optional rear axle ratios, dual exhaust etc.


And most sales men got grumpy if you ordered a different diff ratio and as for twin exhaust it was better to just get the standard single and toss it in the bin and go get the twin done yourself, that way it was cheaper and you could pick out what you wanted.
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