Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Take the time to read our Privacy Policy.

2 Pages12>
bazza30555 Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, 6 February 2017 7:07:12 PM(UTC)
bazza30555

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 207

Thanks: 2 times
Chevrolet produced its first motor with 1HP per Cubic inch in 1957. What year did Holden do the same feat. Cheers Baz
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, 6 February 2017 8:53:45 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,907

Was thanked: 78 time(s) in 76 post(s)
Are we talking published figures or actual figures? SAE gross hp I assume if we are comparing to 1957 GM figures (only real way to do it)? And I also assume production engine, as fitted in the assembly plant(s)?

Makes it a bit hard as power figures changed to the far harder to use DIN net figures that are impossible to get go backwards and get flywheel hp from. However my guess and reasoning is as follows:

I know the flywheel hp of an L48 engine in a GTS350 is 300hp, and I also know the rear wheel hp of one of these is just over 200hp.

I know a VH-VK V5H engine makes just under 200rwhp, so doesn't quite get to 300hp but very close to 308ci. It was rated at 180kW DIN.

I know the VK GroupA was rated at 196kW which would put it over 304hp gross flywheel hp and it was 304ci. And the VK Group A was actually a Holden branded car. So that is my guess.

Edit - the reason I said assembly plant fitted and rated, is I reckon the final spec XU1 would go close to 202bhp although I don't think GMH published a figure . And an L34 with aftermarket HO kit would push 300hp but that is aftermarket. The HDT HO engine would do it easily too, but again not GMH fitted.

Edited by user Monday, 6 February 2017 9:18:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
castellan Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, 6 February 2017 9:23:51 PM(UTC)
castellan

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,098

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 9 post(s)
The Holden 202 LJ Torana XU-1 in 1973 Bathurst type model, would have more power than the standard types 190HP.
Or the 1967 HB Torana Brabham 1159cc 79HP ? I think that's 70.9cid and just the standard 70series has 69HP.
bazza30555 Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, 6 February 2017 10:16:11 PM(UTC)
bazza30555

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 207

Thanks: 2 times
Published figures. Baz
Dr Terry Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 7 February 2017 6:42:54 AM(UTC)
Dr Terry

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 5,290

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 47 time(s) in 45 post(s)
I'm with castellan, the 1159cc HB Torana is approximately 71 cubic inches, so the series 70 @ 69 bhp & the Brabham version @ 79 bhp should qualify,

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 7 February 2017 8:33:53 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,907

Was thanked: 78 time(s) in 76 post(s)
Good work guys if correct!

Did GMH publish a figure higher than 190hp for the later LJ XU1's?
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Sandaro Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 7 February 2017 3:57:59 PM(UTC)
Sandaro

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 50

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
I always though the fuel injected 57 Chev was the first production car to achieve the mark of 1 hp per cubic inch, but a mate says a Chrysler was first. Does anyone know the real answer?
HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, 7 February 2017 7:25:43 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,907

Was thanked: 78 time(s) in 76 post(s)
I just found my HB specs, the Brabham had 79hp@5600rpm out of 70.7ci, the Series70 has 68.9hp@5800rpm from same capacity.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
bazza30555 Offline
#9 Posted : Tuesday, 7 February 2017 7:30:03 PM(UTC)
bazza30555

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 207

Thanks: 2 times
In 1956 Chrysler introduced in new 354 cubic inch V8 which in the 300-B series could be ordered with 10:1 compression ratio and developed 355 horsepower. Cheers Baz
bazza30555 Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, 7 February 2017 7:39:50 PM(UTC)
bazza30555

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 207

Thanks: 2 times
My question came about as l was rereading Torana Tough and at the bottom of page 14 the Brabham caught my eye as it states 1159 cc ( 70.1 ci ) 79 hp. I thought bloody poms have beaten us again, Vauxhall motor in a holden and its got more than 1 hp per cube.
HK1837 Offline
#11 Posted : Tuesday, 7 February 2017 7:51:21 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,907

Was thanked: 78 time(s) in 76 post(s)
It is interesting isn't it? The most powerful and fastest carburetted engine powered Holden, as fitted to a regular production Holden ever was always the HT-HG GTS350 manual engine, especially the last Canadian engine....Right up until the very end of the Super fuel versions, when the VK Group A was built. And beating all of them to the punch achieving 1hp/ci was the humble little Brabham! Other than maybe the VK Group A I don't think there will be another either, at least not in claimed hp.

Great little trivia question for you Dr Terry, for those club nights!
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Dr Terry Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 8 February 2017 6:45:21 AM(UTC)
Dr Terry

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 5,290

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 47 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Originally Posted by: bazza30555 Go to Quoted Post
I thought bloody poms have beaten us again, Vauxhall motor in a holden and its got more than 1 hp per cube.


Technically speaking, it wasn't the Poms. The twin carby conversion was developed & fitted in the UK by Jack Brabham. The Brabham conversion was fitted post production & sold thru Vauxhall dealers, so really it wasn't a Vauxhall thing at all, even though they built the base motor.

Holden imported the kit from Brabham & then in Australia it became a true factory built model.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, 8 February 2017 7:29:17 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,907

Was thanked: 78 time(s) in 76 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bazza30555 Go to Quoted Post
I thought bloody poms have beaten us again, Vauxhall motor in a holden and its got more than 1 hp per cube.


Technically speaking, it wasn't the Poms. The twin carby conversion was developed & fitted in the UK by Jack Brabham. The Brabham conversion was fitted post production & sold thru Vauxhall dealers, so really it wasn't a Vauxhall thing at all, even though they built the base motor.

Holden imported the kit from Brabham & then in Australia it became a true factory built model.

Dr Terry


Like the TRD Hilux Terry! AFAIK the TRD kit was sold as a dealer or aftermarket kit for the Tacoma and others with the V6 engine, but Toyota here sold it as an actual vehicle.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
HK1837 Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, 8 February 2017 7:44:22 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,907

Was thanked: 78 time(s) in 76 post(s)
Did GMH release a higher power output for the 1971 LC XU1? I have heard 180hp but not seen it in GMH literature. If it is 180hp published then (at least correct to the nearest %) it achieves 97% hp to ci ratio - the same % as the Series 70 HB engine (96.89% vs the Series 70's 97.45%).
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Dr Terry Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, 8 February 2017 8:17:18 AM(UTC)
Dr Terry

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 5,290

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 47 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Did GMH release a higher power output for the 1971 LC XU1? I have heard 180hp but not seen it in GMH literature.


I have 180 bhp @ 6000 & 195 ft/lb @ 4200 for the CK XU1, but I'm not certain where I got that from, I'll have to check my references.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Wednesday, 8 February 2017 8:21:59 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
castellan Offline
#16 Posted : Wednesday, 8 February 2017 10:36:35 AM(UTC)
castellan

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,098

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 9 post(s)
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Did GMH release a higher power output for the 1971 LC XU1? I have heard 180hp but not seen it in GMH literature. If it is 180hp published then (at least correct to the nearest %) it achieves 97% hp to ci ratio - the same % as the Series 70 HB engine (96.89% vs the Series 70's 97.45%).


The first 186 XU-1 came with one cam and then another a bit different but with the same duration and then the Bathurst type cam later and that same cam was the normal 202 XU-1 engine and then a bigger cam again and intake valve for the Bathurst type, so the 186 180HP should be right as the 202 is 190HP and the Bathurst has to be more.

I don't think they advertised the Bathurst type engines as most people did not know such a thing was so when they ordered the car through Holden. but I think it was in the CAMS racing book.
detective Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, 11 February 2017 7:53:50 PM(UTC)
detective

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 287

Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 9 post(s)
Wasn't the Camaro Z28 302 cubic inch the first (at least Chev) to top 300 + HP ?
Sandaro Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, 11 February 2017 8:33:05 PM(UTC)
Sandaro

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 50

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Originally Posted by: bazza30555 Go to Quoted Post
In 1956 Chrysler introduced in new 354 cubic inch V8 which in the 300-B series could be ordered with 10:1 compression ratio and developed 355 horsepower. Cheers Baz


Thanks Bazza, clears that up for me.
Sandaro Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, 11 February 2017 8:36:43 PM(UTC)
Sandaro

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 50

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Originally Posted by: detective Go to Quoted Post
Wasn't the Camaro Z28 302 cubic inch the first (at least Chev) to top 300 + HP ?


No, from 1958 (well before Camaro) versions of the Chevy 348ci engines where making more than 300hp. And of course a raft of other big blocks in the early sixties.
HK1837 Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, 11 February 2017 8:46:35 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,907

Was thanked: 78 time(s) in 76 post(s)
Originally Posted by: detective Go to Quoted Post
Wasn't the Camaro Z28 302 cubic inch the first (at least Chev) to top 300 + HP ?


There was a 315hp 283 early in the 60's.

Then a 375hp 327 in 1964. Later on in the 60's a 350hp hydraulic cam version.

The 350 base 4BBL engine was 300hp in 1969 (HT GTS350 got this) although there was a short lived 255hp version also. The Corvette 350 was a 350hp engine too, same basic engine as the 327/350 just more ci.
Then the legendary LT1 350 for 1970. 360hp in Camaro, 370hp in Corvette.

The 302 was only rated as 290hp but it was good for much more especially if fitted with the headers supplied in the boot.

Edited by user Saturday, 11 February 2017 8:49:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2017, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.396 seconds.