Hey Silverfox (Nick).
Nobody else on this site seems to like Monaros going up in value so thought I could discuss with you....what do you make of the Shannons GTS327 at 302K last night ??
I noticed on the Panel shop's facebook page that the car was only "restored" so as to be resold.
Does anyone know if there was something special about this car ?
Was it an old race car ?
It looked to me like perhaps a good original interior car that had all the body work and engine bay restored but all the hardware and fittings looked untouched.
It did not look like a 300K car to me.
So Nick this makes you beasty worth 400K + logically.
Does this mean that we are all rich now ?? Just like Phase III's ??

I'm happy too, I have two of them in the shed!

Supply and Demand are always the main drivers....I still reckon its tacky in the extreme to buy and sell collectibles when your wealth and position in life doesn't need you to do so.

...Will the bloody thing to the Grandkids, but don't show your pride or desperation to the world...after all .. MOST people have no class....

Edited by user Tuesday, 28 February 2017 9:31:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Iconic cars will always be valuable, E-type Jag, Healy 3000 etc have held their value for a long time after coming down from their zenith, they are beautiful cars as is the HK Monaro and deserve to be held in high regard for years to come.
What I am finding difficult is finding a decent HK Monaro shell for a realistic price. Having owned Monaro's for decades I appreciate what they are worth and am very realistic in my price expectations, yet too often encountering a wide discrepancy between condition and value. I understand the market sets the price, they don't grow on tree's but when I sold my HK GTS 307/4speed last year it was for a price realistic for the car yet the amount of shit I received for the price astonished me. Maybe it's just me, too honest and don't want to rip people off
Cheers

Will they hold their value for many years or just slip away?E Types mentioned are a world wide known car. They can't be compared with a Australian car that is only really known to a specific generation. It will be interesting to see what happens in thirty years time.

I happened to be at Shannons getting a 1st Type HK327 I recently restored for the owner valued, so it was opportune.

There were 2 HKs there and by far the better of the two, as far as restoration quality and accuracy goes, was a Monaro HK GTS 186S Powerglide car. A nice thing, and the $92k it made reflected that. The only thing I picked with a quick look was the paint colour on the air cleaner, oil breather cap and fan. Yellow, not gold.

I'll tread a little carefully with regards to the HK327. The interior looked like it could even be fairly original, and was in quite good nick. The paint was a respray, looked fair enough, but nothing special and a few alarming blemishes in the usual trouble spots - below the rear window and under the rear quarter windows in particular. Just what the repair quality and material used was, I couldn't say but they were quite visible.
The exhaust was advertised at the auction as being a correct reproduction. It wasn't.

The front fender bolts were SEMs of HG or later origin, the washer bottle was wrong, the finish of just about everything in the engine bay was incorrect, and most of the bolts were ring-ins and not of HK origin. Generally very rough in the engine bay, except the engine itself, which seemed to be the about the right colour, although all the mounting through bolts, nuts and washers and most of the engine auxiliary attaching bolts were incorrect.
When I saw the car a portion of the inner fender, still with the seal rubber and clips attached, was poking up through the access hole on the left side of the subframe adjacent to the firewall. When I pointed it out to him a Shannon's staff member bent it down through the hole, with limited success. It may have been fixed properly later.

I'm NOT stating categorically that the engine had been restamped, but something about the number stamping didn't look quite right to me, and if I'd been inspecting the car for myself or someone else I would have looked much more closely at casting numbers and dates. A question mark for me.

Generally it looked as I've heard it described elsewhere - a quick job for sale. The documented history for the car contained no clues or hint of a competition history, or any special attributes that would drive the price up.

In my view, for $300k I'd expect an original untouched car with books, or a near concours restoration. The car presented was a long way from either of those things, and really looked like it had been slapped together. Yes, the things I've listed can mostly be fixed, but for that price you wouldn't expect to have to.

One factor, which I've heard from two different sources today, is that the buyer was the same WA identity who purchased the Verdoro Green HT350M a couple of months ago from the Sydney auction for $225k. It seems that he wanted these cars almost regardless of the price.

If this is true, then maybe the price is artificially high, and we will need to wait for the next public sale to get a trend.

In my opinion, and compared to other cars I've seen go in recent times, it wasn't a $300k car. They do exist, but that wasn't one of them.

I always get a laugh out of the "you're ripping people off" comments every time someone nominates an asking price for HKTG cars or parts in particular, either at auction or on various forums.
This stuff isn't food, or water, or oxygen. It isn't an essential, just a discretionary purchase and if you don't like the price, then don't buy it. That way no one is ripping anyone else off!
The only sad thing is the uninformed wasting their money due to ignorance, but that's not confined to cars. Caveat Emptor rules.

I can only speak for my own perception of value, and if the same thing can be purchased elsewhere for less. Others may place a higher or lower value on things, and that's how the market works.

Byron, as far as the comparison with US muscle goes, I totally agree. You can get a Camaro with the same running gear as a HT GTS350 for a quarter of the price.
The reality, though, is that some people want a HT GTS350, or HK327, are prepared to pay the money, and are not interested in rational analysis.

The same auction had a nice EK (if there is such a thing) that was restored quite a while ago and went for, I think, $36k. I never thought I'd see the day that happened.

Hi Warwick Yellow and everyone.

Thank you for the question. Sorry, I have not been on for a few days.

Thanks for the comment regarding my car.

Firstly: "ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM"???

Well the elephant arrived back in 2007. Many have forgotten the result of the Shannons Sydney Motor Show Auction of ten years ago (yes...2007). I registered and sat myself in the middle of the room and continued to bid on that car. It sold for $220,000.00 plus premium
(probably 10%), breaking ALL records. . I withdrew before the final two bidders. The boom was well and truly on.

Not long after I was introduced to Steve who had a stunning red HK327 and many months later it was in my garage. We are still good friends today. This car was not cheap but not quite a record. The Shannons car was impressive in many ways, 70,000 miles, one owner, log books and full service history. VERY original with a few dents and scrapes (these days we call that "PATINA"). Steves was also impressive but different to the Shannons car. It was restored by a stalwart member of the NSW Monaro Club and has teems of major trophies from major events including (according to Ben Stewart) Car of the day at the FIRST Monaro Nationals in 1998. It has also done well at the NSW all Holden Days scoring multiple major trophies ( one of which was awarded during my ownership).

Not long after the sale of the $220K Shannons Monaro an absolutely stunning Sebring Orange HT350 Manual sold for $200,000.000 plus premium. This car was restored and presented for sale some friends of mine.

Back then I also heard of a W. Yellow 327 which supposedly sold for $320k around 2008 but I cannot confirm. I am also aware of several cars which changed hands privately for between $200 and 250K.

I feel that I paid "tomorrow's price" back then for my car but I NEVER doubted it would recover it's value over time.

Over the last ten years I have consistently held the view that the HKTG 327/350 have lived in the shadow of the GTHOs and the A9-X Torana. All of these cars are great in their own way. But I have always had a problem understanding the lower value of the Monaros. It seems that finally, they are getting a well deserved position as far as collectibility goes. I say this as a true GT enthusiast. For me I always wanted an HK327 GTS regardless of my passion for GTs... so I bloody well got it and I am very happy.

So what is my position? Well it is flattering that some say my car is valuable. Thanks. I am happy with it for now and really enjoy participating in displays. I generally think that HKTG have been undervalued for many years and they still have blue sky in their value, considering their competition achievements. Niether the GTHO nor the A9-X are "King of the Hill" and I feel HKTG are a dark Horse.


Cheers.
Nick.

Edited by user Friday, 3 March 2017 10:45:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Great comments all.

GM5735. Yes I do agree with most of your points.

WB ute. The GTHO has always been the top of the tree from day one. There is no denying that. I do feel that time is moving all older cars slightly closer.


The top end cars drive the value of all beneath. Sometimes one model will knock the King off and there is a new King......long live the King.

Interestingly the GTHO is still King but there are many worthy Princes plotting an overthrow.

Like so many of us , my first interest is in ANYTHING mechanical ( I could be called a fanatic). It all just amazes me. I will carry this mindset until my appointment with the garage in the sky. Secondly, my top of the list is Falcon GT. Ten years ago I was in the market for a Phase Three. When the market was rolling in 07 I found a beaut Raw Orange-White interior Phase three but was beaten to the punch. I did look at several others too. But I was always open to something else. Enter the Monaro. As mentioned earlier I am so happy with it and have had it ten years now.....one day I might end up with a Phase three but I won't be too sad if I don't.

Back then I also had a Mustang offered to me. It was a 1969 428 Super Cobra Jet, manual, Drag Pack, an Acapulco Blue/ Gold Stripe/ Black sports interior (three spoke steering wheel , full instruments) Factory 4.11 locker diff. 40,000 mile one family, log book , maintenance history car which was landed in Aust for $70k...... far better value than most any Ozzy Musclecar! Which brings me to the point you made about local car prices versus US Muscle. Yep, U.S stuff is much better value and a great option.

I have had good discussions with owners of some of the best collections in the country. One in particular made a good point and to quote him he told me that the U.S market has both more people and more collectible cars (even now) per capita. The variety is huge. Everything from low volume shortened wheelbase factory drag cars, to the likes of Boss Mustangs to Hemi Road Runners to Big Block soft top Corvettes.The population supports a huge industry which is far more viable than the small specialized market here. These days over there you can build a complete example of many iconic muscle cars and use very few genuine parts. That will never happen here. Nearly did but the GFC and a Government bureaucracy which goes into brain spasms at the first hint of a different type of home built "replicar". They just don't understand the concept that there are many more honest people out there who would be prepared to jump through the hoops to build a good replica using a better than factory Dynacorn body than scumbag bodgies who want to rebirth old cars using Dynacorn shells. God bless their conservative, protectionist minded souls. They do have to protect we the majority of honest people from the one in a hundred thousand thieves.

Here in OZ the number of good "special" Australian Muscle Cars can in some cases be counted using just two digits and there are hundreds, if not thousands of people with a desire to own one.

It is also noteworthy that there is another phenomenon just over the horizon most of us have not yet considered......China. Last Christmas I met a Chinese person who now lives in both Australia and China. He was driving a European Supercar (as is the trend with the new generation of Chinese Businessmen). He was also most interested in both U.S and Aussie Musclecars and was actively looking for a couple of both at the time. When asked what he would do with them he told me he would ship them to China.....I remember many years ago hearing that many yanks were not happy about Aussies coming over and exporting U.S Muscle home. Funny that. If the Chinese en-mass get the desire for Aussie or American Muscle, enthusiasts in both countries won't know what hit them.
Cheers.
Nick.

Edited by user Saturday, 4 March 2017 10:20:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Well said Mick.

Mainstream Australia does not yet get the idea of the full and varied potential of China. They have had a development of industrial and commercial infrastructure in a fraction of the time of any Western nation I am aware of.

There is a rapidly growing middle class which is deeply interested in all things Western....including cars. Just like Japan in the 1960s they are taking just about everything made in the West and copying it. They have not quite yet improved on what they have copied but they are quickly learning about better quality.

Most of their day to day products are available to them and are locally produced.

Most of China's import spending til now has mainly been commodities and raw materials in the set up of their business and industrial infrastructure. Now those who have grown wealth are starting to look offshore to find unique and different things which are not locally available. In the near future all kinds of things will find their way into China as collectibles.

.....Hmmmm if all that happens Dynacorn monaro, XY, VH Charger shells might just become a viable business model (for China only ....of course).
Cheers
Nick.

Edited by user Saturday, 4 March 2017 10:39:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified