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hammered Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 21 March 2017 1:05:15 PM(UTC)
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Holden 6 red motors in their glory days had a reputation for good top end performance(pretty good on the race track).Being that way didn't make them good however for around town driving.What tips can anyone provide for improving low down torque.The camshaft is probably a good place to start.I would be interested to hear from anyone who's had experience or knowledge in this field.
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#2 Posted : Tuesday, 21 March 2017 1:29:30 PM(UTC)
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What size red 6?
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hammered Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 22 March 2017 10:29:27 AM(UTC)
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Let's say a 202.Something I forgot to mention,a mate of mine years ago had a 186 3 speed manual HR premier.It was stock and when I went for a drive in it I couldn't believe the torque it had.Not earth shattering but certainly an improvement on typical stock performance.He told me this guy spent time and my mates money setting up a good exhaust system.It was a twin exhaust but there had to be more to it.Never found out who this guy was,I would have sent my car to him.

Edited by user Wednesday, 22 March 2017 10:45:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 22 March 2017 12:21:50 PM(UTC)
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I'm no red 6 fan and far from an expert. My advice would normally be to pull it out and replace with a V8!

But a few things I've learnt over the years:

Blue/black 3.3 crank and rods, just need a rope seal 202 block.
Red head, look for an old Yella Terra if you want it to look like a red engine. Find an old 186S intake and carby or use a Ford Weber 2BBL or modded 253 carby. Just use the 186S exhaust manifolds or extractors with a single 2 or 2.25" exhaust.
HEI dizzy off a blue or EFI black engine.
Talk to a cam manufacturer for a cam to suit your needs.

Better still use a whole blue or black engine. Buy a Perfectune new head for it or modify the original, rest similar to a red except not sure what intake manifold options you have. Redline make a 4BBL to blue/black, but you'd want to be looking for a very small 4BBL like a 390 Holley. You can buy these new from Holley with vacuum secondaries and electric choke. https://www.holley.com/p...ssic_holley/parts/0-8007
Not sure what extractors are available for blue engines in all shape Holdens.

There are other methods too, like building a 235ci stroker, or even fitting a whole EFI VK engine with an ECU conversion from a VN V6.

Or other similar stuff from fitting a 292ci Chev 6 (will fit straight into HD-WB using the right sump and a TH350 box as this was done for South African examples of these cars) - you won't get much torquier than these! Or even a VN onwards V6 conversion.
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castellan Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 23 March 2017 2:31:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hammered Go to Quoted Post
Let's say a 202.Something I forgot to mention,a mate of mine years ago had a 186 3 speed manual HR premier.It was stock and when I went for a drive in it I couldn't believe the torque it had.Not earth shattering but certainly an improvement on typical stock performance.He told me this guy spent time and my mates money setting up a good exhaust system.It was a twin exhaust but there had to be more to it.Never found out who this guy was,I would have sent my car to him.


Good torque ? like a standard type engine, not a big cam high performance type thing I think your on about.

HQ racing has a bloody good engine setup out of the 202 red motor and they only run the single carby.

But I would run twin Stromberg's on the red and as HK1837 has said.

The correct spot on jetting and whole set up of the carbys can make a hell of a lot of difference.

My dad had a New VG Valiant 245 2 barrel and it did not half chew the juice, so he took it to a bloke that tunned race cars and bingo she was good on the juice and went like the clappers after that.

Some engines even new just don't go as well as others from new, there are a lot of reasons as to why you get ones that are gutless.
Number one, never pussy foot a new engine or the rings don't bed in and don't hold compression as well.
2 bodgie rebuild.
hammered Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 6 April 2017 11:27:08 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the tips fellas.You've given me some good ideas.As for the jetting my car seems to gain about 10 horse power at night.Must be that good oxygen in the air that my holley is sucking in.
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#7 Posted : Thursday, 6 April 2017 11:33:47 AM(UTC)
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Cold air intake will fix that a lot.
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wbute Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 6 April 2017 12:23:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hammered Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the tips fellas.You've given me some good ideas.As for the jetting my car seems to gain about 10 horse power at night.Must be that good oxygen in the air that my holley is sucking in.


Air is denser at night because it's cooler. Therefore more power potential.
castellan Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, 7 April 2017 11:31:46 AM(UTC)
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I can't say that in any EFI car I have owned that I noticed any power increase be it cold or hot, but I sure did with a carby fed engines.

The main point with EFI is the fuel used, sure on a hot day they may not respond as well, but only because the knock sensor has retarded the timing due to the low grade fuel, this is fixed with a higher octane and bingo the power is back to normal I have found.
I had this with my 179KW 5.0L and VY 5.7L SS and my 2.4L GSR, when it's hot days I run 95 octane and the problem of being a bit docile down low was fixed and when you got up it the 179KW 5.0L ute sure needed the 95 octane or it would rob so much power that a ecotec V6 would flog it, but the others were ok when you got up them in the rev's range.

The EFI adjust the fuel mixture to suit any conditions, but a carby does not have that type of ability directly on the hop.

When I am tuning my dirt bike, it's so finely tuned that I adjust the carby jetting for the hot months or cold months and even one place I go that is the highest point in SEQ it has to be adjusted again.

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#10 Posted : Friday, 7 April 2017 7:54:19 PM(UTC)
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Whilst EFI cars adjust the mixture (either from the pre-defined fuel map under acceleration & load, or from closed-loop feedback on lean cruise), the main reason for consistent power with EFI is that almost without exception, they all have some form of cold air intake, drawing air from outside the engine bay - either from beside the radiator, over it, in front of it, or from under/around the headlight area (in passenger cars & derivatives - you could add snorkels for 4WDs).

With a carby car & a traditional air cleaner, the engine bay temps can easily be 60-70 degrees on a warm day - and that's the air the engine is ingesting, rather than 25 or 30 degree air from outside the engine bay, fed via a cold air intake. Years ago I did the measurements with a wired probe on a digital thermometer inside the air cleaner housing on a VH 5L
I had a VK Brock cold-air pipe & air cleaner on it, and wondered if the pipe was worth it. The results were startling - only a few degrees above ambient with the cold air pipe when driving at 60km/h, but some 30-40 above ambient without it. It was far worse when idling in traffic. Idling also increased the temp in the air filter housing with the cold air, but as soon as you got moving it dropped back down quickly.
Cheers,

Mick
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castellan Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, 7 April 2017 10:11:09 PM(UTC)
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I think them Falcon GT shaker air filters worked well and would of helped the GT-HO run better in tune.
Some used to pop the back of the bonnet up higher to help let some of the heat out on the HK-T-G Holden's.
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