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gm5735 Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 19 April 2017 12:16:28 AM(UTC)
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Another HT350 Auto Monaro appears for sale. The press (nine.com.au) were gushing about how these cars are a better investment than real estate. Lloyds look like they want to give Shannons some competition, and did a good job of getting air time.

It will be interesting to see where this one goes, as the best Platinum HT350 manual restoration in the world went for mid $100s 18 months ago, and this one has plenty of inaccuracies.


http://www.lloydsonline....;smode=0&lid=1035157
400bowtie Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 19 April 2017 2:23:41 PM(UTC)
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You are right about the inaccuracies Geoff even by the photos . Will try to view the car tomorrow. Is that Body ID plate stamped from the top right for a Elizabeth plant car? Lloyds are calling it a 10 out of 10 car ( don't think so Tim ) I had a 5 to 10 minute look at the white 310k car before the auction and not wanting to run someone car down but i was disappointed

The difference between good and great is the extra effort
wbute Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 19 April 2017 7:37:39 PM(UTC)
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Rough figures. New 69 Monaro was approximately 4K. A new house 27k (Sydney). Now the Monaro is worth 80 times more at 300K. The house worth 1 million in Sydney has only gone up 40 times its value.
gm5735 Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 19 April 2017 7:58:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
Rough figures. New 69 Monaro was approximately 4K. A new house 27k (Sydney). Now the Monaro is worth 80 times more at 300K. The house worth 1 million in Sydney has only gone up 40 times its value.


Yes, but presumably you haven't lived in the car since 1969.
HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 19 April 2017 8:35:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gm5735 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
Rough figures. New 69 Monaro was approximately 4K. A new house 27k (Sydney). Now the Monaro is worth 80 times more at 300K. The house worth 1 million in Sydney has only gone up 40 times its value.


Yes, but presumably you haven't lived in the car since 1969.


Or earned rent and claimed depreciation or other tax deductions. Or borrowed against it for further gearing.

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wbute Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, 19 April 2017 11:25:39 PM(UTC)
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True. As I said, rough figures. You haven't replaced a roof, white ant eaten floors or subsidising foundations, or paid rates based on value either.
No investment is free, not that I would call too many cars a sound investment.
I just thought it was interesting.

Edited by user Wednesday, 19 April 2017 11:27:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

commodorenut Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, 19 April 2017 11:45:47 PM(UTC)
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No capital gains tax on the car (assuming the house had been used for investment purposes, and was rented out as suggested by Byron).
Also much easier to store a car than an entire house, and there's no council rates, water rates, or land tax on a car either.....
Cheers,

Mick
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HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 20 April 2017 6:02:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: commodorenut Go to Quoted Post
No capital gains tax on the car (assuming the house had been used for investment purposes, and was rented out as suggested by Byron).
Also much easier to store a car than an entire house, and there's no council rates, water rates, or land tax on a car either.....


If you bought the house in 1969 there would be no Capital Gains Tax applicable. Only applies to assets purchased after I think it was 1983.

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Dr Terry Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 20 April 2017 6:48:05 AM(UTC)
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1985

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
wbute Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, 20 April 2017 7:40:20 AM(UTC)
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I will take the house. 300K isn't going to let you retire anyway.
Sandaro Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, 20 April 2017 7:44:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
Rough figures. New 69 Monaro was approximately 4K. A new house 27k (Sydney). Now the Monaro is worth 80 times more at 300K. The house worth 1 million in Sydney has only gone up 40 times its value.


You make a good point WB, although the average price of a house in Sydney would have been more like $18000, so that's a 55 fold increase. That said that's every house in Sydney, not just a few select marquee models!!
castellan Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, 20 April 2017 7:50:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
Rough figures. New 69 Monaro was approximately 4K. A new house 27k (Sydney). Now the Monaro is worth 80 times more at 300K. The house worth 1 million in Sydney has only gone up 40 times its value.


I would look at it in that the average wage was X and todays average wage is X and then you have a clearer point of view to look at.

Some of the Monaro owners I know will say that their Monaro is worth X because someone got X for one that is all original in mint condition, well old mate's was a 186S and now it's a 307 with a shabby interior and she is not going to get anywhere near them dollars in fact, but he believes it's worth what the best are getting top dollar for.d'oh!

I have a mate with a VC Brock but he is forking out X for rego and insurance and the Value don't look that good as an investment as what it once was seen to be.

One day the arse may fall out of the price of the old Monaro's as the younger gen may look to something other as the bees knees, I have never had a thing for pre EH Holden's XR Falcons or RV1 Valiant's, so I assume the younger gen would have there turning off point generally as well.
castellan Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, 20 April 2017 8:08:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
I will take the house. 300K isn't going to let you retire anyway.


I have a mate who only has $2 million in super at 55 yo and he can't even afford a car and he is tearing his hair out thinking how he is going to survive, he is in total shock as he will never get another government job and could never work in the real world or he would have a fit trying to sue everyone he could, as he did when working for the government.
Silverfox Offline
#14 Posted : Thursday, 20 April 2017 9:41:33 AM(UTC)
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Hi all.

Just like most areas in life there is a top level.

Many people can practice golf and achieve an 18 handicap. Each stroke less takes more and more input until scratch is reached. The best of the best. The guys out there winning top events are few.

Same here. This is a top end car just like some of the others sold recently. Regardless of any inaccuracies it has it is still a top end car. People make comments about the car being inaccurate etc. possibly because they care about such accuracy which is most important. But also possibly in an effort to display their knowledge or just to create controversy and drag someone else's hard work back a peg or two.

Some critics out there have little hands-on knowledge or experience when it comes to actually attempting to do a (or correct an already done) restoration.

Bottom line here is that cars have thousands of bits sourced from all over the place. Add to that the fact that GM-H was on fire back then with plants in Elizabeth, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and some assembly even in Perth (Perhaps Byron can elaborate on this.)

I can attest to this as ten years ago I purchased a well known restoration which has been inspected by many respected people in the Monaro fraternity. Some of these people have differing opinions....and I fully respect that. The people who have helped me with their valuable knowledge are from different states.

So when assessing the accuracy of an HKTG all of these factors need to be considered. I have spent ten years carefully attempting to "correct" what the late Jeff Brown did when he restored. I have been told my car is a "good reference" and I continue to work on getting it right. As I understand, the Platinum car is first class resto and yet people are still finding inaccuracies....



As shown since the early 2000s (the first mega shift in values) there are people out there who actually pay those prices for those cars. I've said before that HKTG Monaros were undervalued especially when compared to Falcon GTHOs and the iconic A9-X (even though a factory standard road car was comparitively slow).

In the end the market will decide what sale price is achieved.

It's catch-up time.

Cheers
Nick.
"HOLDEN MONARO. OUT TO DRIVE YOU WILD!"
HT80737 Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, 20 April 2017 10:07:18 PM(UTC)
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What are the inaccuracies....

Anyone know who did the resto

How the car looked before the resto work just after the millennium early 2000s


gm5735 Offline
#16 Posted : Friday, 21 April 2017 12:25:21 AM(UTC)
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Well Nick, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what a "top end car" really is. To me it's more than acres of shiny paint and mirror finish stainless.
At least one of the "top end cars" recently sold is quietly back on the market since it's a fake.

To be a top end car, in my opinion, requires attention to detail and, also in my opinion, the word restoration means putting the car back to the way it was when it left the factory.

The auctioneers claim that this car was restored by "a top restorer" and that it is "10 out of 10", whatever that means.

From 20 metres away it has Belmont headlight surrounds, Kingswood tail lights, incorrect infill paint in the wheel arch moulds, Pagewood pattern side stripes, an excessive gap between the bonnet stripes and HG GTS badges.
Moving closer, it has a 350 manual boot mat (not suitable for a 16.5 gallon tank, which is why it doesn't fit properly) wrong front end attaching bolt finish, wrong master cylinder, wrong engine bay paint colour, an extra S clip on the heater hoses, wrong battery cable terminals and several other issues.
With one exception none of the above items have anything to do with parts availability, and require nothing more than a simple enquiry to get right. Which makes me wonder what the parts that are not in the photographs are like.

Since I've restored a dozen, advised on dozens, and owned one for nearly 40 years I reckon I'm entitled to an opinion.

Edited by user Friday, 21 April 2017 1:13:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#17 Posted : Friday, 21 April 2017 7:18:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 400bowtie Go to Quoted Post
You are right about the inaccuracies Geoff even by the photos . Will try to view the car tomorrow. Is that Body ID plate stamped from the top right for a Elizabeth plant car? Lloyds are calling it a 10 out of 10 car ( don't think so Tim ) I had a 5 to 10 minute look at the white 310k car before the auction and not wanting to run someone car down but i was disappointed



Elizabeth always stamped the Body tag in the era of interest. They didn't start embossing body plates until the end of 1975.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Silverfox Offline
#18 Posted : Friday, 21 April 2017 2:17:18 PM(UTC)
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Geoff.

Sorry. I took a quick look at the Lloyds ad. Did not read anything or look at more than the first pic......Thought it was Ben's old car. Whoops. My bad.

I hope you got my point and respect your position.


Cheers Mate.

"HOLDEN MONARO. OUT TO DRIVE YOU WILD!"
gm5735 Offline
#19 Posted : Friday, 21 April 2017 8:55:33 PM(UTC)
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Understood Nick. Ben's car was the one I was referring as probably the best and most accurate restoration you'd ever be likely to see.
(Yes Byron, except for the Quadrajet!)
HK1837 Offline
#20 Posted : Friday, 21 April 2017 9:13:31 PM(UTC)
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And one other thing courtesy of Repco.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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