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albyht Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 11 May 2017 6:16:50 PM(UTC)
albyht

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Does anyone have any links or ideas of numbers of different OH models left on our roads? I realise that plenty are left hiding unregistered in garages and sheds, but it would be interesting to find out how many grace our roads these days. I drove from Northern NSW to Sydney the other week. I saw one customised EH. That was it.
Warren Turnbull Offline
#2 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 8:45:12 AM(UTC)
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I am sure that motor registration is held in a data base of some type so you should be able to do a search for say EHs by putting in chassis number EH###### and all should come up. They would have no interest in supplying this information to the public though. In saying this they know the age of all the cars as they know the average age of the cars on our roads and this is regularly published by motoring groups for various reasons.

When they stopped supplying leaded fuel, they knew how many pre 86 cars were left on the road. They shall do the same with non ethanol fuels one day.

The next thing is what is an "Old Holden". I would suggest any car over 15 years of age is considered "old" by the motor registry, Insurance companies, the general population, finance companies etc.

Anything before a VX Commodore is old. VLs are now on Classic/Historic Registration and next year we will see VNs on it.

Warren
HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 9:36:23 AM(UTC)
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Funny isn't it Warren. To me an OLD HOLDEN is anything prior to HK. HK-WB are modern Holdens!
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wbute Offline
#4 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 11:28:13 AM(UTC)
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They would know exactly what's registered. They are not likely to tell you though.
I agree. Pre-HQ is old.... isn't it?
castellan Online
#5 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 2:40:54 PM(UTC)
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All of USA has been E10 for some years now.
albyht Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 4:36:40 PM(UTC)
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I'd class an old holden as any chrome bumper bar car ie - WB / VB or earlier
HK1837 Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 5:03:00 PM(UTC)
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I reckon modern in Australia is availability of all of the following in the one Series: air, steer, power windows, power boosted front discs, auto choke and automatic transmission. I think that means HK in GMH. To me a modern car is a comfortable, no fuss car. Sure you had to pay for all this stuff in HK, and no HK had all of this as standard equipment, and the equipment itself could be somewhat agricultural compared to 40 years later. To get all of this standard fitment in a GMH product I think means HJ Caprice. Probably the first Holden with all this standard is HX LE. To others modern might also mean integrated A/C and 4 wheel coil suspension, so that means HQ onwards. Some may add cruise control and intermittent wipers to the list, which would then mean I think VC and WB Statesman.
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KBM Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 7:00:37 PM(UTC)
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you could argue that the HD/HR had similar improvements as the HK. power steer,window was there. auto trans and power brakes and air,if you're got power windows you're got air.
I reckon one you missed was the shock absorbing steering column in the HK which i believe was a world first. but who really cares what's called old or new as long as we enjoy the ride
wbute Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 8:06:53 PM(UTC)
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Fuel injection is when modern started in my opinion. Oh and AC as standard, not an option.
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#10 Posted : Friday, 12 May 2017 8:49:05 PM(UTC)
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Aircon was standard for HJ Caprice, but if you want EFI and air then you are probably starting at VK Calais which aligns essentially with the first Series post steel bumpers.

The TE Gemini had Fuel Injection and integrated A/C early 1981, but the injection was diesel!

Edited by user Friday, 12 May 2017 8:53:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Warren Turnbull Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 8:47:34 AM(UTC)
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No matter what you use as a criteria to judge old, someone else will argue another point.

Back in the 80s/90s we had two All Holden Days here in Brisbane, one for up to HR and the other for all Holdens including those modern ones. It was beleived that the HK was a deviation from the original theme of a Holden, basic motoring. It is true that you could get power steering automatic and disc brakes on HR, But Hk you could now get cloth trim, air con, power windows, buckets on other than Premier, V8 just to name a few. Here are some popular break points:

Increase in soft plastic interior materials = FE
Automatic = EK
Large increase in hard plastic interior pieces = EK
Super luxury model = EJ
Electronics = EH
Power steering = EH
Plastic dash surround = HD
Disc brake = HD
4 speed = HR
Larger format = HK
Options game = HK
Excessive Luxury model = HK
Plastic grille = HT
Coil springs = HQ
Crude ABS = HJ
Dwell wipers = HJ
Plastic mouldings = HJ
Full plastic dash = HJ
Plastic mirrors = HX
4 wheel disc = HZ
Euro design influence = VB
Plastic coated bumpers = VK
EFI = VK
IRS = VR/VS?
ABS = VR/VS?
Plastic bumper = VT

These are just a few. But as you can see, using plastic as a gauge of old does not work very well.

We could debate this all day, so age is the only real answer to "old". What we want to call a "Traditional Holden" or "Real Holden" though WOW where do we start and finish?

Warren

Warren
castellan Online
#12 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 11:33:54 AM(UTC)
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It may be just 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and so on and air-con come into mainly everything from 1990's = to get away with a modern day car spec.

Disc brakes mainly all had it from 1975, drum brakes are considered rubbish, no one would want nowadays even when restoring any old car, you would just not want to drive it.

Half decent engine came in 1963 Holden's, the grey was boring rubbish and from 1968 you get something worthy inspiringly to drive with V8's.

ADR27A in July 1976 is the start of pathetic engines performance and fuel economy and then it took till 1989 to have something to be proud of in performance and fuel economy that could be had under the bonnet. not to mention of the 3.8L from VN to VR being a chaff-cutter, but a good V6 came with the VS in 1995.

I would think that the 2000's VX on is just as good as any to the 2017 VF because I don't think that anyone could say, look how much better this car is than a VX.

I said to a mate only last week, if you went back in time, like the 1970's TV time tunnel show thing, how far back would you like to go back to, stuck from there on, if you had to stay and carry on from at your age now ? he said 1982 is as far back as he would like to go.
But what if you were of lic age 17 to drive and had money to burn ? I would say 1970 at 17yo and at my age well 1980 at the most.
albyht Offline
#13 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 11:40:28 AM(UTC)
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Warren,
Pardon my ignorance but what was electronic about the EH? or what do you define as electronic. I would have assumed electronic referred to electronic ignition or a computer chip of some sort.
Al
Dr Terry Offline
#14 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 12:14:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: albyht Go to Quoted Post
Warren,
Pardon my ignorance but what was electronic about the EH? or what do you define as electronic. I would have assumed electronic referred to electronic ignition or a computer chip of some sort.
Al


I think that Warren is referring to the EH having the first alternator, which contains diodes.

A bit pedantic I realise, but would a car radio even as far back as FX qualify as being electronics ?

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Dr Terry Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 12:21:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post

Plastic coated bumpers = VK
IRS = VR/VS?
ABS = VR/VS?
Plastic bumper = VT



IRS = VQ (Mar-90)
ABS = VQII (Nov-91)

I don't quite understand the"plastic bumper" vs "plastic coated bumpers" thing.

AFAIK all those cars with plastic faced bumpers (VK to VF) have a reinforcement behind them. The only real difference over that time would be the material used. The plastic itself has changed.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Dr Terry Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 12:25:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post

I would think that the 2000's VX on is just as good as any to the 2017 VF because I don't think that anyone could say, look how much better this car is than a VX.


I realise that's it's only opinion, but have you driven a VF for any distance. They are a much better drive than a VX, especially the steering feel, while the economy & performance for a large car is excellent. In my opinion they are the best car ever built in Australia & way better than some expensive imports. Im just talking about a mid range model like an SV6 or a V6 Calais.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Warren Turnbull Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 1:58:54 PM(UTC)
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A diode is electronics or solid state and they are mounted on a board as such within the alternator. The diamond dot radio is not part of the operation of the car, but yes they had transistors in them. So that is why I went for EH. Electronic alternator voltage regulator came in in HJ. There was also a Voltage regulator for the instruments, I am not sure when that changed from vibration type to electronic.

Some bumpers have a metal brace covered in plastic, a VT bumper is just plastic.

Thanks for the ABS and IRS clarification.

It would be interesting to make a list of features and when they became available and when they became standard to a vehicle then standard across the range. Ie

Power Steering, Option EH and retro fit EJ, Standard HK Brougham, Standard all VN
Power windows Option HK, Standard HJ Caprice? Standard all VE

I think a lot of people would be surprised at when these things happened.

Warren
HK1837 Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 2:29:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post

I would think that the 2000's VX on is just as good as any to the 2017 VF because I don't think that anyone could say, look how much better this car is than a VX.


I realise that's it's only opinion, but have you driven a VF for any distance. They are a much better drive than a VX, especially the steering feel, while the economy & performance for a large car is excellent. In my opinion they are the best car ever built in Australia & way better than some expensive imports. Im just talking about a mid range model like an SV6 or a V6 Calais.

Dr Terry


Terry is spot on. A VF is that good to drive it makes a VE feel ordinary.

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Dr Terry Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 5:39:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
There was also a Voltage regulator for the instruments, I am not sure when that changed from vibration type to electronic.

Some bumpers have a metal brace covered in plastic, a VT bumper is just plastic.



The first vibrator type voltage reg for the instruments, was for the 1973 HQ update when they went to thermal type gauges. I think VB Commodore had the first electronic voltage reg for the instruments.

With reference to the bumpers, VK to VF all differed in bumper construction but it could be argued that the earlier ones were hard plastic with no steel reo, where VN onwards had a 'proper' steel reo to pass crash tests. With VT to VZ the front reo in particular is quite a structure. On the later models the bumper face is nothing more than a cover to hide the steel 'bumper' behind.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
castellan Online
#20 Posted : Saturday, 13 May 2017 8:45:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post

I would think that the 2000's VX on is just as good as any to the 2017 VF because I don't think that anyone could say, look how much better this car is than a VX.


I realise that's it's only opinion, but have you driven a VF for any distance. They are a much better drive than a VX, especially the steering feel, while the economy & performance for a large car is excellent. In my opinion they are the best car ever built in Australia & way better than some expensive imports. Im just talking about a mid range model like an SV6 or a V6 Calais.

Dr Terry


Yes and no, I don't like the VF SS ute as much as my VY SS ute was, a lot is crap too heavy and the 6.2L is bad on fuel the seats are not as good and in the back of the ute it's total rubbish can't fit my bike in like the VY the tail gate is trash as you can't drop it all the way down to shovel sand out of it etc and with the number plate on the tailgate you can't tilt it back a bit to put 2 bikes in and stop your gear floating out the back like you can with the VU-Y-Z and the cops can't see number plate if it's tilted back a bit because it's on the bloody tailgate.
I liked the steering better in my VY, the SS VF is just a bit to heavy but the SSV feels lighter than the SS.

I drove a VF SV6 sedan all a round North NZ it was ok, but a real big and heavy feeling thing, but I like my wife's Aurion better over all apart from it being a FWD. the SV6 exhaust is so noisy around town taking off and I hated that, a V8 is ok to listen to but not a V6 ThumbDown and the auto is crap and the shocks are just crap on the VF.
All the new age tec crap does not mean jack to me, rev camera, sat nav, blue pooth, rev park ect is just nonsense for idiots, I do like the side mirror tell tail.
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