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HK1837 Offline
#141 Posted : Tuesday, 15 August 2017 7:01:55 AM(UTC)
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The storage was the sticking point Warren until we spoke to the Pagewood maintenance foreman. When you see Ben next ask him.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
gm5735 Offline
#142 Posted : Tuesday, 15 August 2017 10:10:17 AM(UTC)
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Is the contention here that appx. 600 completed body shells had their firewalls changed under improvised conditions, no jigs, spot welds cut, repaired, resealed to the plenum, respotwelded, etc etc? Probably 2000 man hours of rework.

It really doesn't sound very plausible.

Is there any photographic evidence of this rework anywhere? The cars must show some evidence, surely.
Warren Turnbull Offline
#143 Posted : Tuesday, 15 August 2017 3:58:19 PM(UTC)
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I stand corrected then.

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Jul71-Oct74 Offline
#144 Posted : Wednesday, 16 August 2017 7:23:10 AM(UTC)
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A common myth among HQ owners is that there are two versions of the standard "Holden" grille badge. One that features a red stripe around the edge of the badge and another without the red, just grey. Try telling a believer of this one that they ALL started out with the red stripe and that the Aussie sun fades it over time so that it completely disappears eventually.
Dr Terry Offline
#145 Posted : Wednesday, 16 August 2017 8:16:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jul71-Oct74 Go to Quoted Post
A common myth among HQ owners is that there are two versions of the standard "Holden" grille badge. One that features a red stripe around the edge of the badge and another without the red, just grey. Try telling a believer of this one that they ALL started out with the red stripe and that the Aussie sun fades it over time so that it completely disappears eventually.


There are many myths regarding the colour fading in plastic badges. The fact is that the Aussie sun does fade & most badges change colour over time.

The FB/EK steering wheel centre emblem is another great example. I'm not even sure what colour they were when new, but you do see some with green stars & some with blue stars. However there is only part number, which to me, indicates that they left the factory all the same.

However here we are 57years later & many turn up with either green or blue stars. Even in pristine low mileage cars, which have been garaged & babied all there life, leave no clues. Some are blue & on some cars they are green.

The only logical explanation that I can give is that there may have been 2 different suppliers, which was quite common for GM-H in those days. Even for things like starter motors & alternators they used either Lucas or Bosch. So it's not unusual for them to have 2 suppliers for bits like badges etc. So if these 2 suppliers each used a different pigment for colouring the stars, they may have aged & therefore changed colour differently.

It's an argument that continues in the FB/EK community.

Dr Terry

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castellan Offline
#146 Posted : Wednesday, 16 August 2017 11:27:07 AM(UTC)
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I think that they just go from blue to green and then they go gold.
Dr Terry Offline
#147 Posted : Wednesday, 16 August 2017 12:10:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
I think that they just go from blue to green and then they go gold.


So you're saying that they were originally blue & then go green with age ?

The problem that I have is that, is I have some very old weathered ones which are solid blue & I also have some very nice ones (read almost new looking) which are green.

Out of the 8 or 9 that I have they are either blue or green & none are gold,

The FE/FC ones I have do go gold,

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castellan Offline
#148 Posted : Wednesday, 16 August 2017 4:15:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
I think that they just go from blue to green and then they go gold.


So you're saying that they were originally blue & then go green with age ?

The problem that I have is that, is I have some very old weathered ones which are solid blue & I also have some very nice ones (read almost new looking) which are green.

Out of the 8 or 9 that I have they are either blue or green & none are gold,

The FE/FC ones I have do go gold,

Dr Terry


A dude I know collects them horn buttons, does them up and sells them.
Maybe only the red ones go gold, I will ask him.
I thought they went from blue to green due to fading, I have seen silver or a chrome look as well.

With the red I think it's the because of the lead in the red.
castellan Offline
#149 Posted : Wednesday, 16 August 2017 6:01:17 PM(UTC)
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The blue painted centre emblem FE FC go to a gold centre.

The FB EK is black with silver Holden lion and blue stars and they can go to chrome I believe.

The FX has a longer tail on some, maybe the early ones.

He was showing me two blue FB EK ones that look like new.

He has 3 old original toy Bat Mobiles all in top nick and one is still in the box and a Bat Boat, not to mention a framed life size picture of the original Cat Woman.
ozprem Offline
#150 Posted : Monday, 7 June 2021 3:01:59 PM(UTC)
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Gday, the myth regarding HQ grille emblem is an old topic, but I have 3 examples of different colouring all in as new condition. No.1 is the emblem obtained from rare spares. The lion in the centre is on a black background. There is a boundary line of red with thin chrome edging. Outside the red line is a perimeter of blue that has HOLDEN in chrome.No 2 and 3 were found at swap meets. No. 2 the lion is on a black background. There is a red boundary line with thin chrome edging. Outside the red line is a perimeter of black with HOLDEN in chrome. This would have to be the rarest.Condition wise I am referring to.These 2 version appear a lot, but of course the red stripe has faded and in its place is a silver colour. No 3 is all black. Lion on black background. A boundary line of black with thin chrome edging. Perimeter of black with Holden in chrome. This version has been thought to have gone on the SS and or Sandman. I don’t know anything about what goes we’re, but I do have 3 different coloured emblems. And if I could I would send through photos. Please tell me how.
castellan Offline
#151 Posted : Thursday, 24 June 2021 1:53:00 PM(UTC)
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Why the 4.44 ration diff in the one tonne. I can not think of one reason why anyone would want such at all, bar for pulling out stumps. if it was to be an option how many would of ticked off on that ratio.

I know that the HQ one tonne started out as only a 173. who would want that ? to my mind a 308 would be the only thing for a one tonne with M20 4sp or auto with 3.36 ratio std.

I was thinking my book does not say 4.44 ratio until the HJ is that true, no 4.44 in the HQ ?

I could understand a 173 M22 with 3.9 diff or a 202 with a auto and 3.9 or M22 with 3.55
HK1837 Offline
#152 Posted : Thursday, 24 June 2021 2:46:01 PM(UTC)
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The reason for the 4.44 rear axle is well known. When the HQ commercials were released late in 1971 the standard stock order vehicle was 173HC, 3spd on the column and 3.55 rear axle. You could option 173LC, 202HC, 4spd and Trimatic. 3.36 was the economy rear axle option. That was it. The standard 4spd was a wide ratio M20 Aussie 4spd, later coded as M22. You could get a standard M20 behind 202 but it would have been horrid even with a 3.55 rear axle.
In early 1973 a V8 model cab-chassis was offered which was 253HC, 3spd and 3.55 rear axle. Options were 4spd and Trimatic. I think 3.36 rear axle was standard for autos and also if you optioned integrated A/C with a V8 you got a 3.36 rear axle. Manual also had 3.36 as the economy option.
What happened was with the 6cyl engines the clutches couldn’t handle the 3.55 rear axle with a load on the back. There was even a National competition for what dealer mechanic could change a cab-chassis clutch out the fastest. So for HJ the 4.44 rear axle was developed for 6cyl only applications and was the standard rear axle. 3.55 became the economy 6cyl rear axle. These would have been for job sites where only low speed use occurred, they were useless over 80kmh. What did occur though is for some reason GMH did allow some 6cyl with standard M20 4spd. These were almost as bad on clutches as a 6cyl 3spd with 3.55 rear axle. A 3spd has basically the same 1st gear ratio as a normal Aussie 4spd M20 (3.07 vs 3.05), so there is no difference in 1st. But reverse is a different matter and this is where you really fry clutches. Reverse on a 3spd is 3.74:1, whereas by nature of its design an Aussie M20 is 3.05 reverse, so that means in reverse with a 4.44 rear axle an M20 is almost the same overall reverse ratio as a 3.55 axle with a 3spd.

You could not get a 308 in a HQ cab-chassis. During HJ the Ambulance pack was offered with L31 M41 GV4 only. That changed to TH350 in late HZ and Trimatic in later WB. An Aussie 4spd wouldn’t handle a 5.0L on a loaded cab-chassis.

4.2 tonners were OK, especially WB. No good as an M20 4spd, too hard to reverse with the 3.55 rear axle. The best 4.2L examples were Trimatic with 3.36 rear axle or a 3spd manual with 3.36 if you didn’t want to tow or carry heavy loads.
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castellan Offline
#153 Posted : Thursday, 24 June 2021 3:03:49 PM(UTC)
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yes I just had a mate come over drinking, but I will start off from were I finished off with the one tonne.

The one tonne 3.3L could have a M22 with 3.9 as well.

But the 4.2L one tonne does not get a M22 does it ? I think it's only a M20 with 3.36 diff or auto with 3.36 diff.

A mate bought a WB one tonne 3.3L M22 4.44 diff in 1984 it was a forestry car and he said it was a joke to drive with that gearing so he put a Supra 5sp in it and then a 3.36 diff and then I said toss the 3.3L as they are no good on fuel when being a Builder and towing a huge trailer around all the time. so he did put a 5.0L in it and yes got better fuel economy and pointed this out to his dad who was a builder with a WB 3.3L and he claimed such was a total load of bull shit. could not tell him at all, old sonny boy said it's a proven fact and he i8s doing 200km a day easy driving out the same way.
HK1837 Offline
#154 Posted : Thursday, 24 June 2021 4:06:33 PM(UTC)
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No 3.9 in a cab chassis as they were all Salisbury. You could get a 3.9 in any other HQ 6cyl as they were all banjo.

253/4.2 manual was either M15 or M20. Wide ratio M20 (also later called M22) was 6cyl only. All 253/4.2 manual cab-chassis were 3.55 unless optioned with GV4 (3.36) or C60.

Any 4.44 cab chassis was horrid with a 4.44, but it was a godsend on site vehicles or farms with a manual. Even 3.55 was horrible at highway speeds. The HX 4.2 was so gutless that GMH changed the standard rear axle from 3.08 to 3.55 on all of them except cab-chassis which was already 3.55. That was the worst Holden of all, a HX 4.2 manual ute or van. High reviving 4.2, strangled with ADR27A.

I forgot to add, when I was about 15 I bought two tonners to drive around on my Nan’s 6 acre property. A HQ 173 and a HJ 3.3, both 3spds. The HQ was 3.55 and the HJ a 4.44. Both were pretty low km, one was rusty and one banged up. The 4.44 was heaps better for low speed work, far less clutch slipping.

Edited by user Thursday, 24 June 2021 6:52:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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castellan Offline
#155 Posted : Friday, 25 June 2021 4:18:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
No 3.9 in a cab chassis as they were all Salisbury. You could get a 3.9 in any other HQ 6cyl as they were all banjo.

253/4.2 manual was either M15 or M20. Wide ratio M20 (also later called M22) was 6cyl only. All 253/4.2 manual cab-chassis were 3.55 unless optioned with GV4 (3.36) or C60.

Any 4.44 cab chassis was horrid with a 4.44, but it was a godsend on site vehicles or farms with a manual. Even 3.55 was horrible at highway speeds. The HX 4.2 was so gutless that GMH changed the standard rear axle from 3.08 to 3.55 on all of them except cab-chassis which was already 3.55. That was the worst Holden of all, a HX 4.2 manual ute or van. High reviving 4.2, strangled with ADR27A.

I forgot to add, when I was about 15 I bought two tonners to drive around on my Nan’s 6 acre property. A HQ 173 and a HJ 3.3, both 3spds. The HQ was 3.55 and the HJ a 4.44. Both were pretty low km, one was rusty and one banged up. The 4.44 was heaps better for low speed work, far less clutch slipping.


Thanks HK.

I remember a plumber who had a HQ 173 one tonne in say 1982 I never bothered to look into it to see if it was a 3 on the tree or 4sp. I thought they were all 4sp. back then if something did not have a V8 in it I took no notice of it much at all.

I had a XT ute 221 6 cyl 3sp on the tree 3.23 diff for a paddock basher when I was 16yo and a mate had a EH 149 wagon with 3.55 diff and that EH was fast, my 221 was out of control power 1st and 2ed work with lots of bends and a creek at a mates 40 acres. my only real concern was swinging on the wheel with 8 turn from lock to lock I think and that's were getting the tail out steering with the right foot. the EH got power to the ground and was hard to keep up to as the XT was like a roo jumping up and down over the track it was like the springs had 3 times the travel to a EH. we were caked in dirt like you would not believe. I had a HR 186 auto with 3.36 before that at our place.
I can not say that I ever felt the need to lower the gearing of any of them.
We had a Austin A40 ute that in the end we could only get up the hill in reverse because that was lower than 1st.
HK1837 Offline
#156 Posted : Friday, 25 June 2021 4:41:10 PM(UTC)
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Probably 95% of 6cyl HQ cab chassis would have been column shift manual or auto. Very hard to find floor shift 4spd examples.

Remember 3.55 in an EH with 13” tyres would be close to 14” tyres with 4:1. The optional 3.9 in an EH would be like a 4.44:1 with 14” tyres. Plus a cab chassis was designed to move/carry 2600kg around.
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#157 Posted : Friday, 25 June 2021 7:04:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
..................
We had a Austin A40 ute that in the end we could only get up the hill in reverse because that was lower than 1st.


my father for his first car. ..... had an Austin 7 (the cool canvas soft top version)
and during courting my mother , they used to go up to any of the tearooms in the Dandenongs.

Coming home, there was an obstacle... the road up Wheelers Hill
(back then a dirt goat track, today a 6 lane road) and as he used to
tell me as a kid, that Austin would only go up Wheelers hill in reverse
(reverse being a lower gear than 1st and surely needed with a sidevalve
engine all of 7hp)
and
with my mother kneeling in the passenger seat looking to the back which
was the front while reversing... being navigator Applause

Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
castellan Offline
#158 Posted : Saturday, 26 June 2021 10:41:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
..................
We had a Austin A40 ute that in the end we could only get up the hill in reverse because that was lower than 1st.


my father for his first car. ..... had an Austin 7 (the cool canvas soft top version)
and during courting my mother , they used to go up to any of the tearooms in the Dandenongs.

Coming home, there was an obstacle... the road up Wheelers Hill
(back then a dirt goat track, today a 6 lane road) and as he used to
tell me as a kid, that Austin would only go up Wheelers hill in reverse
(reverse being a lower gear than 1st and surely needed with a sidevalve
engine all of 7hp)
and
with my mother kneeling in the passenger seat looking to the back which
was the front while reversing... being navigator Applause



Haha My mate had a lot of Austin A40's but they were all OHV 40hp the same engine as in a Mini they were and a 4sp box but only used 1st and 2ed from what I can remember.

Yep interesting times back in them days, the younger generation just can not fathom such in reality. I will point out on some back road that this is just like the major highways was like back in 1973 and they go No ! I will stop off the highway and show them the old road that still exist beside the new at some points, I remember them new being built, concrete bridges that were much higher than the old not to mention wider. if you go north NSW you will see timber bridges that are one way only nowadays, well they were once 2 way, only people nowadays are to stupid and pathetic to be let drive both ways over them now.

On the 1973 highway we had you could drive 2 cars on the bitumen but you were playing with say 3in between each car and so most got 2 wheels of as you past and we has stone nets in front of the windscreen to stop it getting smashed. even in the early 1980's I would get a buster windscreen every month say or a laminated one hammered with a big star once a month off the main highway that was wider by then.
castellan Offline
#159 Posted : Saturday, 26 June 2021 10:46:36 AM(UTC)
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No wonder many old cars back they were fucked by the time they were 8yo our HR was rusted out, it had a hold in the back left floor that a cat could easy crawl through, if it did not have a bit of reo shoved over the hole.
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