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HK1837 Offline
#21 Posted : Friday, 15 June 2018 11:19:42 AM(UTC)
HK1837

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18V is Slate Black and is what tells you on an Australian delivered HZ M70 or M80 that it is a Sandman. 19V is Black.

For headlining on 18V van it was either black or if neutral headlining optioned it was Buckskin. Same with sunvisors. So look for remnants of headlining or sunvisors to know which it was. My guess is on a 2214-18V van it would be neutral.
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waddell65 Offline
#22 Posted : Monday, 22 April 2019 10:13:09 PM(UTC)
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Hi Guys,

I have a couple of questions I'm hoping someone can answer.

I'm the guy who purchased the rusty old December 1977 HZ Sandman in Tuxedo Black (windowless) 12mths ago, that was left in the bush since 2004.
Well you wouldn't believe it but the son of the original owner contacted me about 4wks ago.
Turns out his father was the head spray painter at the Holden Factory and specifically ordered the van for himself.

He optioned it out with deleted stripes and wider GTS rims and it had the greyish headlining (apparently employee's
could get certain things that the general public couldn't at the time).

He even sent me a photo of it in its prime and it was in the Car magazines as a feature car.
The father has kept the original Log books, registration papers etc and even the original special order rims all these years (40).

Anyway to my questions;

1) Can you advise me if the HZ Sandman's have the thin chrome strip on the top of the door window sills ?

2) I have a early Dec 1977 HZ Sandman, mine has the HZ GTS guards, I am aware the HX Sandman came out with them but positive the HZ Sandman's did not, is this correct ?

3) Did all HZ Sandman's come out with the Radial Tuned Suspension (RTS) badge on the left side of rear bottom tailgate ?

Regards
Darren

HK1837 Offline
#23 Posted : Tuesday, 23 April 2019 7:00:54 AM(UTC)
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1. Not sure which trim you mean.
2. Neither HX or HZ Sandman had GTS guards, they were deleted.
3. All HZ vans and utes had the RTS badge on the end gate. The engine size badge could be optioned to be deleted but not the RTS one.

DL7 delete stripes was my guess for it, that is the most common it seems. Lots of people didn't like the hippy looking stripes.

There were no wider "GTS" rims? There were only two rally rims, both made by ROH at the time this van was made. The standard 14x6 as fitted to HZ Sandman and GTS, and optional across most other HZ. And there is the A9X version which is also 14x6 but is a more negative offset that makes them look wider. There was a 14x7 Polycast rim which was optional on some Holden and Statesman from January 1975, and was fitted standard also to HX LE coupe BUT these 14x7 rims were only available (initially at least) with N40 power steering or N42 fast ratio (20.7:1) steering on sedans and wagons (this may have changed later when steering ratios changed). They were never available on a commercial though, however the Ewe't left GMH in 1975 with a set on it, which were originally on the HQ Premier SS concept and then on the 350Z (HQ Old Man Emu) coupe. As far as I am aware there were no 14x7 Rallye II rims in the USA anymore at that time in 4.75" PCD 5 stud, they were 15x7". Would be interesting to see what the rims actually are.

Not sure what grey headlining they would have used in early HZ? Dove Grey trim disappeared around 7/75 from HJ and there was no more greys until 11C came into HZ around 10/78 in line with VB Commodore trims. To do this they would have had to get a whole headlining made in grey, plus sunvisors and the trim across the top of the screen. Also grey pinchweld around the sides of the headlining. Seems very unlikely, when they had a buckskin neutral option available. Never say never though but I'd be surprised if it was grey, shame you don't have the broadcast sheet for it! Or order information.

Edited by user Tuesday, 23 April 2019 8:48:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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waddell65 Offline
#24 Posted : Tuesday, 23 April 2019 11:30:20 PM(UTC)
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Hi Byron, I have attached some of the email i received from the original owner's son.

I'm Jason (XXXXXX), my father was the first person who owned your black panel van his name is Hilton Charles (XXXXXXX) and he worked as Head spray painter for GMH back in the 70's and early 80's. Dad hand picked the best shell he could find and he was the one who built it from the start.

Yes it was Tuxedo black with full black interior 253 and 4spd and he had it factory ordered with a9x torana wheels on it because they were a inch wider then the gts/sandman/monaro wheels which he still has the matching 5 still in perfect condition, because he put 5 spoke dragway mags on it.
Personally i liked it but not everyone would, the van was also featured in an issue of trucks and vans magazine or van wheels magazine or something like that that ended up being what we know as street machine magazine now which he probably has multiple copys of no doubt.

My uncle informs me that he also put a 9 inch diff in it as well, not sure if this is true Dads never told me anything about that before but i do know dad has the Original order sheets the Original receipt and Original rego papers !!

I've spent 20yrs looking for it i thought a few times id found it and every time turned out to be the wrong van or nothing even close but your description of the van (oh by the way sorry i seen your posts on a forum and found your email on there) but the panel van you have 100% has to be it there were only 2 Tuxedo black hz sandman panel vans built and one had side windows and my fathers was without side windows.

Also interior of the panny was black but roof lining was not it was a rare color luna grey i think dad called it, and dad working for Holden had the option to have no sandman decals on it and i believe he said that was only available to Holden workers only all other vans were optioned with decals.

Oh one last thing the panel van was factory ordered with no strips no decals at all, just all black if i hear back from you I'll send as many photos as i can of the panel van the way it was from factory that can help you out cheers



It was all very interesting to hear. If I receive all the documentation, I can forward it onto you for your records if you want.
I have received 1 x photo, photo shows no decals. His dad put a Ford shaker on the bonnet.

I forgot, the chrome door trim i was talking about, is on top of the door window sill (adjacent to the outer door window rubber).
My old HQ holden 4-door has it.

Edited by user Wednesday, 24 April 2019 7:28:46 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Deleted Surnames to protect identity

Dr Terry Offline
#25 Posted : Wednesday, 24 April 2019 6:59:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: waddell65 Go to Quoted Post
he had it factory ordered with a9x torana wheels on it because they were a inch wider then the gts/sandman/monaro wheels which he still has the matching 5 still in perfect condition, because he put 5 spoke dragway mags on it.


As Byron has said, the A9X rims were 14 x 6 (not 14 x 7).

They had a different offset to the regular 14 x 6 GTS style rims, which made them appear "wider".

Dr Terry
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HK1837 Offline
#26 Posted : Wednesday, 24 April 2019 8:19:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: waddell65 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Byron, I have attached some of the email i received from the original owner's son.

I'm Jason Loftus my father was the first person who owned your black panel van his name is Hilton Charles Loftus and he worked as Head spray painter for gmh back in the 70's and early 80's. Dad hand picked the best shell he could find and he was the one who built it from the start.

Yes it was Tuxedo black with full black interior 253 and 4spd and he had it factory ordered with a9x torana wheels on it because they were a inch wider then the gts/sandman/monaro wheels which he still has the matching 5 still in perfect condition, because he put 5 spoke dragway mags on it.
Personally i liked it but not everyone would, the van was also featured in an issue of trucks and vans magazine or van wheels magazine or something like that that ended up being what we know as street machine magazine now which he probably has multiple copys of no doubt.

My uncle informs me that he also put a 9 inch diff in it as well, not sure if this is true Dads never told me anything about that before but i do know dad has the Original order sheets the Original receipt and Original rego papers !!

I've spent 20yrs looking for it i thought a few times id found it and every time turned out to be the wrong van or nothing even close but your description of the van (oh by the way sorry i seen your posts on a forum and found your email on there) but the panel van you have 100% has to be it there were only 2 Tuxedo black hz sandman panel vans built and one had side windows and my fathers was without side windows.

Also interior of the panny was black but roof lining was not it was a rare color luna grey i think dad called it, and dad working for Holden had the option to have no sandman decals on it and i believe he said that was only available to Holden workers only all other vans were optioned with decals.

Oh one last thing the panel van was factory ordered with no strips no decals at all, just all black if i hear back from you I'll send as many photos as i can of the panel van the way it was from factory that can help you out cheers



It was all very interesting to hear. If I receive all the documentation, I can forward it onto you for your records if you want.
I have received 1 x photo, photo shows no decals. His dad put a Ford shaker on the bonnet.

I forgot, the chrome door trim i was talking about, is on top of the door window sill (adjacent to the outer door window rubber).
My old HQ holden 4-door has it.


Some of that sounds like Chinese whispers, ie got changed over time.

Firstly, have a look at the tags. Dandenong vans were assembled at Dandenong, but the bodies came over from Elizabeth. They were painted and hard trimmed at Elizabeth as a complete shell (with glass, stainless etc) and then sent by train to Dandenong where they went on a chassis, had the front panels painted and put on and all driveline and interior fitted etc. So to hand pick a shell he'd have had to go to Elizabeth body plant, build and paint the shell there and then finish it in Dandenong...… Where was he the "head" spray painter?

You could not "hand-pick" a shell. They were built to a schedule prepared up to 3 months prior, all allocated to a vehicle. All parts to build that vehicle would be procured in the lead time and when they were all ready the car was built.

There will be more than two HZ Sandmans in Tuxedo. I have two recorded which means there will probably have been at least 20, probably more.

I reckon it just had neutral headlining (buckskin). To get a full headlining made in a non-GMH colour would be rare.

Torana Rally rims were not an inch wider, but a different offset. Grab them if you can, A9X Torana owners will pay more for them than you paid for the van!

DL7 Delete stripes was very common in HZ, lots were done like that. My mate has a Windsor Blue van with DL7, still in original paint.

Edited by user Wednesday, 24 April 2019 8:03:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Correction

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
waddell65 Offline
#27 Posted : Wednesday, 24 April 2019 7:26:05 PM(UTC)
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Hi Byron / Dr Terry,

I recontacted the original owners son today and he advised his father worked at the Dandenong GMH factory.

My front bumper has the rubber in the middle and have been told this is incorrect.
Do you have a photo of the bumper I need to purchase so I can see what it looks like ?

Regards
Darren
HK1837 Offline
#28 Posted : Wednesday, 24 April 2019 8:15:48 PM(UTC)
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It is the same bar as you have but without the holes and slots for the rubber. You will find one on most HJ to HZ Belmont or Holden (except cab-chassis), HJ-HZ Kingswood (not HZ SL) and from memory HJ to HX GTS. Might be some other obscure ones too.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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