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HT80737 Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 15 December 2018 6:12:30 PM(UTC)
HT80737

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Dealer code 265 is

265 Melbourne Internal GM-H public relations

Here is a cut and paste from the Torana forum page

214 Internal Holden Code for Promotional cars
263 Brisbane Internal GM-H public relations
264 Sydney Internal GM-H public relations
265 Melbourne Internal GM-H public relations
266 Adelaide Internal GM-H public relations

http://www.gmh-torana.co...-dealer-code-list/page-3

As listed in the document from Holden Historical Services

This vehicle was built for internal company use in Victoria

Nice car to have a GHM company vehicle

I hope this helps
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DW on 15/12/2018(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 15 December 2018 6:53:16 PM(UTC)
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If public relations is correct (some parts of that GMH Torana listing isn't right) then probably a display car for a motor show of some kind. Could be a small display at a Hotrod show or a local "show" or a big motor show. I wouldn't put too much weight into what it was made for, but the options on it like a CTV car with cloth inserts and 308 manual are what make it special. Anything in 308 manual outside of GTS (or later Sandman) in HQ is rare, normally 308 came with an auto if vehicle wasn't a GTS.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 15/12/2018(UTC)
DW Offline
#3 Posted : Sunday, 16 December 2018 1:11:26 AM(UTC)
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Many thx HT and HK,

HK, Unfortunately For my own sanity I will continue to try and find out what the vehicle was built for so as to have some historical relevance to attach to the car (if there is any).

One of the kind people that has been assisting me with my fruitless search wrote the following to me in an email. "Almost everyone knows of the Ewet that was built in mid-1972 and appeared at the Sydney motor show, but not many know of a 'sister' unit in Chateau Mauve built at the same time".[/b]

Not sure if there is any weight to the above message and I could be looking into it a bit too deeply but as "not many know of a sister unit" was written, its had my ear ever since.

I have a couple questions below that would help me out heaps if someone can answer them.

1. Could there be any correlation between the "Ewet" prototype and this Utility given that they have exactly the same build date, albeit with different drivetrains?.

2. Was there ever an SS utility prototype ever built?.
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Sunday, 16 December 2018 6:57:26 AM(UTC)
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The other 350 ute was really only a "sister" as it was also a HQ V8 Kingswood ute with a 350 and auto but the similarity really ends there.

The Ewe't was silver (probably just Baroda or a close mix) with 350, air, steer, bucket seats, console shift and 3.08 rear axle. It was completed on 15/3/72, had a Premier nose, guards off a HQ GTS, Deville stuff inside including power windows and was covered in wool on places like the Tonneau. It also had blue Pontiac GTO stripes and other custom pin striping and badges. When it left GMH it sported the 14x7 PE1 rims and tyres off the 350Z and also off John Bagshaw's HQ Premier SS sedan concept.
The Chateau Mauve car was also 350 auto but was an otherwise pretty stock HQ V8 auto Kingwood ute. It was a column shift, bench seat car with aircon and 2.78 LSD. It was completed on 19/5/72 and was also an internal car.

I will ask Leo Pruneau about your car, but I doubt he'll remember as he didn't remember the Ewe't. I asked Joe Felice and Peter Nankervis about the Ewe't at Norm Darwin's Torana book release and Joe thought it may be an external build, until he saw the photo of it on the turntable on the roof of the Tech Centre. Joe was in charge of such show type vehicles at the time, he might be worth an ask as he did remember the Be-ute which was a purple HT-HG V8 Kingswood ute done with GTS nose and guards in 308 4spd, done for a show at the time.

Leo did tell me that the Sandman name was around when he arrived in 1969, so I doubt that an SS ute was ever envisaged.

Make sure that 265 dealer code is as you claim, Ben didn't say that on the HHS report.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 16/12/2018(UTC)
DW Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, 16 December 2018 1:33:02 PM(UTC)
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Thx HK.

Andi at HQresto gave me the dealer code after I called him chasing some info on the Utility. I may have heard him wrong as initially I thought he had said 255 as the code and from my investigation 255 didn't exist as 250 was for Experimental Engineering vehicles so I rounded up to the next possibility of the 265 code.

HK are there sub numbers between, 250 Experimental Engineering cars (for crash testing etc) and the next on the list, 263 Brisbane Internal GM-H public relations?.

The more I think of it from an engineering perspective with that gap in the coding being 13 numbers they could be assigned to 13 different applications under the main 250 code. Not sure if this is how it works as ive never seen it mentioned anywhere with regards to sub codes under a main code number?.

If you could manage the time to ask Mr Pruneau for me that would be much appreciated and I can't thank you enough for the gesture.

I spoke with Mr Felice a little while ago and he did also mention the Be-ute. He was kind enough to FWD on Mr Pruneau's email and said that he may be able to remember the car as he used to do the show cars ect for him. I am yet to get a reply as I am certain Mr Pruneau is probably sick of the sight of emails from people like myself asking "Can you please help me with any info on my Kingswood" or maybe it went into his Spam, who knows.

I will contact Ben to check against the Code Andi gave me.
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, 16 December 2018 1:53:57 PM(UTC)
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Most of the 200's are internal numbers. Yours is actually 255, Ben tells you what it is in the report. 255 and all the others will exist, just that people other than Ben do not know what they are.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 16/12/2018(UTC)
DW Offline
#7 Posted : Sunday, 16 December 2018 3:14:22 PM(UTC)
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Thx HK.

Much appreciated for your assistance and time given on the car.
Balfizar Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, 17 December 2018 6:54:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Most of the 200's are internal numbers. Yours is actually 255, Ben tells you what it is in the report. 255 and all the others will exist, just that people other than Ben do not know what they are.


Ha! Benny boy has been using my cross referenced Dealer codes for years and so have other authors.

Hello ,

Many thanks for this. Your research is reassuring to say the least. I was beginning to doubt some of the 'factual' data I had amassed over time...

One problem I have is that I didn't note anything like where and/or how I obtained some of the Dealer Codes - I just kept adding names/numbers to the list. As these codes are people as opposed to the business/organisation they controlled, I should have recorded the person's name at the time the code was originally issued. Like a lot of things, if only...

I look at what you are compiling and take my hat off to you. I am having enough dramas trying to put together a composite of the dealer story in a relatively small timeframe (when the 81837 model was in production and under warranty). And this timeframe was back in the days when life was quite 'simple' in comparison to the 1980s and beyond.

Later,
B.

Ben had a lot wrong and still does. The biggest problem was GMH painted themselves into a corner and had to recycle D/CD from a defunct dealer to the next(new) dealer for external applications. For internal applications the D/CD were more of an account code or cost centre and were re-issued for different purposes at different times. When I field questions I ask for a date which zeros me in on a changing D/CD. The GMH Torana Forum D/CD list had 75 errors in it for the Torana period last time I looked. Ben and I parted company when the information exchange seemed to be all one way and the promises were never fulfilled. I was warned that this would be the likely outcome. Oh well. I have a 45k datapoint database on D/CD's. D/CD began in 1962 as a warranty cost centre account code.
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DW on 18/12/2018(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, 17 December 2018 7:29:46 PM(UTC)
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I do know someone that has the full 2xx list decoded that worked at GMH using the codes every day but he won't divulge the information in full, which is his right and privilege.

Edited by user Monday, 17 December 2018 7:31:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 18/12/2018(UTC)
Balfizar Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, 17 December 2018 8:52:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I do know someone that has the full 2xx list decoded that worked at GMH using the codes every day but he won't divulge the information in full, which is his right and privilege.


At a given point in time the list of 200 - 299 D/CD is static (but only at a given given point in time)the day after some or one of those number could have been re-issued to a different description and purpose.

264 GMH (Pagewood) Internal GM-H public relations
264 GMH VDD
264 PRIXCAR SYD
264 NSW Zone Sales

255 Metro 3 VIC DANDENONG GMH Employee deal - Dandenong 1973

Edited by user Monday, 17 December 2018 9:08:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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DW on 18/12/2018(UTC)
DW Offline
#11 Posted : Tuesday, 18 December 2018 4:40:04 PM(UTC)
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Many Thx Balfizar,

The 255 dealer code - Metro 3 - VIC DANDENONG - GMH Employee deal you have given me is from 1973.

Is that date correct? as the vehicle was built in 1972 and if so do you happen to have any historical evidence of the sale to the employee in 73?

From what I understand presently the vehicle would have been assigned a code prior to being built in 1972 for accounting purposes and could have been completely different in 1973 as the Numbers were static until altered for a given circumstance internally.

Balfizar do you have any records of what the cars code would have been on the 7th of March 1972 as I have been told that the car did not have to have any approval from the relevant Zone Office for the (C.T.V) colour trim variation.


Cheers

Edited by user Tuesday, 18 December 2018 7:50:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Balfizar Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, 18 December 2018 6:39:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DW Go to Quoted Post
Many Thx Balfizar,

The 255 dealer code - Metro 3 - VIC DANDENONG - GMH Employee deal you have given me is from 1973.

Is that date correct? as the vehicle was built in 1972 and if so do you happen to have any historical evidence of the sale to the employee in 73?

From what I understand presently the vehicle would have been assigned a code prior to being built in 1972 for accounting purposes and could have been completely different in 1973 as the Numbers were static until altered for a given circumstance internally.

Balfizar do you have any records of what the cars code would have been on the 7th of March 1972 as I have been told that the car did not have to any approval from a Zone Office for the (C.T.V) colour trim variation.


Cheers


Sorry no further details. (YES 1/08/1973 a car has been documented as being GMH employee deal with code 255) What is typical for a Internal D/CD (accounting code/cost centre) is that the application of the cost centre is kept open until all transactions allocated to that cost centre are complete. e.g. Promo cars - manufacturing costs/ transport / promotional material / advertising / tender costs/ re-couped tender sale price. etc etc. All costs associated with a promotion or any other venture are captured /assigned to a cost centre this includes re-couped sale price if any.

It is obvious and something that needs more research as to how documented costs were assigned to a given task (D/CD) e.g. any D/CD assignment say 235 had to have a sub-set of invoice number to facilitate more than one assignment to that code at any one time. (235 -#101 differentiated from 235 #102) - could be cars for a promo/motor show from different states for the same show.

Edited by user Tuesday, 18 December 2018 6:48:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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DW on 19/12/2018(UTC)
DW Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, 19 December 2018 4:46:43 PM(UTC)
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Many thx Balfizar,

If more research was conducted and some form of a book was put together regarding the whole Coding process with dated applications of the various code it would be a very large extensive piece of work and im quite amazed that it hasn't been done by anybody as it seems to me to be such an important piece of the Build and Sale process within GM-H. It would be advantageous to a lot of people if it could be done to give some more historical relevance to the lifeline of their vehicles from their inception.

From what ive read so far in my very short time of looking at the coding process I could assume that It would take some time with many people involved releasing a lot of historical information that they have acquired leading to a very difficult process to reach the desired outcome which seems almost an impossible task to complete.

Also as HK mentioned about the chap he knows with the 2XX list decoded that it is their right and privilege to retain the information that they have acquired which I could imagine took many years given their circumstance, with the foresight to rentention of the codes and with others a lot of research done and again many years, so fair enough not to release it to someone thats done absolutely nothing for the instant gratification of an answer that they require immediately.

Thx again Balfizar for the information you have forwarded on to me regarding the sale, much appreciated.



wbute Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, 19 December 2018 5:31:44 PM(UTC)
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I disagree with people hoarding this information. If it’s not made public there is a good chance it will all disappear. I hate to say it but the people holding are not getting any younger and no one except the owner knows the value of it.
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DW on 19/12/2018(UTC)
Balfizar Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, 19 December 2018 8:49:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
I disagree with people hoarding this information. If it’s not made public there is a good chance it will all disappear. I hate to say it but the people holding are not getting any younger and no one except the owner knows the value of it.


Have to agree with the hoarding of info - some people see it as power to know what others don't and sell it. And then again I have seen some of my "Unreleased" D/CD lists copied and released on other websites - noone owned up to who did it. ( fortunately they were unverified/preliminary lists) My interest grew to a level and volume of " a book" maybe, if I ever get the time. Its take years so far and a huge amount of time, one day I'll get back to it. I do PM queries answers but no list and I don't think anyone will ever have a "complete " list best that can be done is Verified to unverified categories and a date range where possible(and that can be expanded).

Note:- D/CD's changed with change of ownership(dealer principle) or company - even when trading under the same name continued. This fools a lot of people. if you find a car and an associated D/CD great you can put it on the timeline (this D/Cd at that time) And just to complicate things - sometimes the D/CD did not change with change of ownership. It was never going to be easy.
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DW on 19/12/2018(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#16 Posted : Wednesday, 19 December 2018 8:56:43 PM(UTC)
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What should one do with their 1000’s of hours of work? Put it on the ‘web? Then lowlifes copy and paste it and sell it on CD. No thanks. That is why I no longer keep my website anymore.
Look what happened when the LC-LJ Service/Warranty report became public, history gets created, faked cars and engines appear.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 19/12/2018(UTC)
Warren Turnbull Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, 22 December 2018 6:35:13 AM(UTC)
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Dealer code 265 is on the HQ SS press car order sheet, so it could be as simple as a press car.

Some of those cars have "different" combinations. The problem is though you do not see many road tests on commercial vehicles.
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DW on 22/12/2018(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, 22 December 2018 6:57:11 AM(UTC)
HK1837

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This one is 255 Warren.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 22/12/2018(UTC)
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