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HK1837 Online
#1 Posted : Monday, 2 September 2019 3:10:07 PM(UTC)
HK1837

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Probably a Dr Terry question again.

Just getting the 9" in the car, I was intending on just using the HK backing plates and other internal re-usable bits that are there now. I bought a new kit for it with new springs, pins, clips etc and have a set of new HQ-WB rear shoes (1337 I think they are) plus some old stock Made in Aus PBR HQ-WB rear wheel cylinders. I just went to put it together and had totally forgotten about the HK brake rear shoes (for disc front) don't use the little pushrods either side of the wheel cylinder like a HQ-WB. What do you call these things exactly, and where can you get them from? Of all the cr@p in my shed I do not have a pair of HQ-WB rear brakes to get them from. I have about 6 sets of HK-HG rear brakes, but they are all the same as the ones on the car.

While I'm at it, are all the re-usable bits inside the brake assembly like the self adjuster and the park brake strut and the adjuster assembly the same between HK and HQ-WB? I always thought they were but just checking. Otherwise I'll have to track down a set of HQ-WB rear brakes somewhere to get all the bits.

Edit, just spoke to local brake bloke who is very good on these. All stuff the same just need those rods (and the shoes and cylinders of course). There is a guy near me with a set of LH-LX rear drums cheap, I assume these are the same rods? From memory they look the same. Shame I chucked all this stuff away years ago.

Edited by user Monday, 2 September 2019 5:30:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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HK1837 Online
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 9:11:32 AM(UTC)
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I just found new cylinder push rods on EBay. Not cheap but finding an old set that aren’t r00ted looks harder than you’d think!

Also, been so long since I last did this, which side of the brake backing plate does the gasket go on? Or are there 2 per side?

Edited by user Tuesday, 3 September 2019 9:39:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Dr Terry Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 10:14:09 AM(UTC)
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Sorry, I missed this post earlier.

Given that these little pushrods were unchanged from HK to WB, you would think that they would be easier to find 2nd hand.

On the subject of the gaskets, originally they were fitted between the backing plate & the retainer plate to stop any oil leaking past the inner seal & around the bearing from getting on the brake shoes. Many mechanics don't worry about them, especially if the replacement bearing has an o-ring in the outer edge.

Dr Terry
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HK1837 Online
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 10:33:05 AM(UTC)
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I would have thought that too, but no wrecker local to me has HK to WB stuff anymore. I looked last week at Greg’s classicozwreck yard and he has never kept brakes undercover, so anything left is all rusted. I have about 6 sets of HK-HG rear brakes but they are all off GTS or Brougham so all are missing the pushrods. There is a few sets of brakes on EBay but they are asking near $200 plus freight and by the condition look like they’ve been out in the weather too so no guarantee the rods will be any good either.

I’ll check what bearings are on the 9” axles for an o-ring.

Thanks again!
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Dr Terry Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 3:07:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I’ll check what bearings are on the 9” axles for an o-ring.


What axles are you using Byron ?

The reason I ask is that HK/T/G rear drums have an unusually large offset to allow for the rear brakes. What I mean is the distance from the housing end to the axle flange is much more than Ford or HQ etc.

Dr Terry
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HK1837 Online
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 3:23:48 PM(UTC)
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Currie axles with HQ bearings, stud pattern and centre bore. Bearings have o-rings.

The HK-HG and HQ-WB drums look identical to me bar the stud pattern and centre bore. Backing plates look identical to me too. I have them in front of me now.

I also remember when I had my LX Torana, it had L34 rear axles and HQ brakes (as per L34). When I broke an axle, all I did to get it going again was put LH-UC fine spline drum brake axles in with HK-HG drums and it all worked as per expected other than having to fit 4.25" PCD wheels on the back.

(Before anyone gets upset, they weren't original L34 axles, they were cut down Holden ones and one broke as I made the mistake of using Holden banjo ones to cut and spline rather than 1-tonner ones, so the splines were too soft).

Edited by user Tuesday, 3 September 2019 3:37:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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gmholdman Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 3:42:01 PM(UTC)
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E-mail sent. AL.
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#8 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 3:48:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
the little pushrods either side of the wheel cylinder like a HQ-WB. What do you call these things exactly


I call them "those nasty little things that always drop out when I'm reassembling the brakes".

About an inch long, rounded at one end where they fit into the wheel cylinder, sorta slotted at the other end with 4 prongs that fit into a recess in the back of the brake shoe.

If that is what you are looking for I can spare 4. I bought a couple of axles over the years and stripped all the bits off. PM me a postal address. It will take me a week or two to send them because I'm away from home at the moment.

EDIT: Looks like gmholdman beat me to it
HK1837 Online
#9 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 4:01:23 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the offer guys, much appreciated, but I found some (see post 2 above). They aren't cheap but they are new. I ordered another bit off the seller too that I needed so I only paid the one postage amount.
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Dr Terry Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 4:03:58 PM(UTC)
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So you are using HQ rear brakes, with axle offset to match ?

Dr Terry

Edited by user Tuesday, 3 September 2019 4:08:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
 1 user thanked Dr Terry for this useful post.
Oldolden on 3/09/2019(UTC)
HK1837 Online
#11 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 4:14:01 PM(UTC)
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Yes, HQ-WB drum brakes. Diff is shorter overall by 3/4" each side though so I can run 15x7 Pontiac Rally Rims or Chevelle SS rims (same backspace) and keep the rear track basically the same as HK-HG 6" rear (HK with spacers of course).

Will be using the HK backing plates with HQ shoes and drums.
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Dr Terry Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 4:35:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Currie axles with HQ bearings, stud pattern and centre bore. Bearings have o-rings.

The HK-HG and HQ-WB drums look identical to me bar the stud pattern and centre bore. Backing plates look identical to me too. I have them in front of me now.
.


HQ rear bearing are the tapered variety, I've never seen those with o-rings in their OD.

Also there should be a big difference between the HK & HQ backing plates in their 'depth'.

AFIAK the distance from the axle flange (face) & the face of the housing end (where the backing bolts to) is radically different when comparing HK to HQ.

The figures I have been using for years (doing axle conversions) are 72mm for HK & 53mm for HQ. 19mm or around 3/4-inch different.

If you have a drum & backing plate from each car, sit the backing plate in the back of the drum & measure the difference

Dr Terry
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HK1837 Online
#13 Posted : Tuesday, 3 September 2019 4:40:40 PM(UTC)
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Will look closer, axles wrapped in plastic.

Will measure the backing plates, look identical to me.

I see what you mean. The drums and shoes are essentially the same but there is a bigger “recess” in the backing plate where the axle end goes. Means I have to chase down some decent HQ backing plates! The ones I have here are rusty and buggered.

Edited by user Tuesday, 3 September 2019 4:49:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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HK1837 Online
#14 Posted : Wednesday, 4 September 2019 3:55:37 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the Help Dr Terry, saved me a few hours of disassembly of the HK brakes, which is about when I would have realised the difference. Plan was to strip them, leave them hanging by the handbrake cables and then slot the 9" in, bolt it down and put the brakes back on. It would have been obvious as soon as an axle went in. I found some reasonable WB backing plates, will get them blasted and paint them up. So the positive is I can keep a good set of HK disc brake (front) rear brakes together despite the week delay getting some correct ones blasted and painted.

Which of these had slotted/scalloped drums? That is what is on it.
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#15 Posted : Wednesday, 4 September 2019 4:09:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Which of these had slotted/scalloped drums? That is what is on it.


I'm not sure, but I've only noticed the scalloped rear drums on early HKs.

Dr Terry
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#16 Posted : Wednesday, 11 September 2019 8:25:02 AM(UTC)
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Got some HZ or WB rear brakes in good cond, just need to be cleaned and painted.

Is it worth keeping the self adjusters? They weren’t on the HK brakes. One is a bit sloppy, might just be the spring on the shoe locating rod is fatigued, I have new ones of these so will probably tighten it all up when back together.

I also noticed that on both sides the rearmost pin hole looks a bit flogged/hammered. This is the round hole where the pin goes through both the trailing shoe and the self adjuster and gets held by a flat spring steel clip. The HK ones look in similar condition. As the backing plate pressing appears symmetrical (other than the hole for the handbrake cable and the slot for adjustment) I would have thought that these pin holes front and rear would be identical, however the front ones look flat and round, but the back ones are almost countersunk and not round. Look sort of flogged. Is this normal wear and tear or are they like this originally? I reckon with a drift and hammer on the anvil I could get them flat again, if they are meant to be. This could be why one of the self adjusters felt loose too.

Just spoke to Dr Terry, as suspected they needed to be flat so I banged them with a drift on an anvil and got them back to where they should be.

Edited by user Wednesday, 11 September 2019 4:39:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
HK1837 Online
#17 Posted : Thursday, 12 September 2019 11:20:27 AM(UTC)
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I just looked at another 2 pairs of HQ-WB backing plates and a Torana set. All had the same bad recessing of the rearmost pin heads’ meaning the trailing shoes would be loose on all of them. I wonder if it is the self adjusters that cause it? Every set I have checked the adjustment screw has been tight and there is no way that little alloy adjuster would turn them.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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