Wasn't the late HQ dual scale speedo marked 220 kph ?

Dr Terry

Yes, but in GMH literature it is called a 140mph (225km/h) or 140mph/225km/h speedo. It might show a 220km/h graduation as the final km/h mark but the speedo range extends to 140mph which is 225(.31)km/h.

HGV8, what model was it that had the 140mph speedo, and was it column auto?

Going by the road tests top speeds from magazines from the time that needed anything above 120mph, the only cars that exceeded it were (highest top speed found, there were others):

HK GTS327 - 122mph
HT GTS350M - 125mph
HG GTS350M - 130mph
HQ GTS350M - 128mph

Modern Motor managed 119mph out of a HQ GTS 308 manual in 2/73, doesn't state if it had dual exhaust or not. So maybe with the smaller frontal area a HT-HG 308 manual with dual exhaust may have exceeded 119mph, especially in a lighter body style like a Belmont ute, but one of these optioned with dual exhaust would be very rare.

Maybe if there was a 140mph speedo outside of GTS it may well have only been applied with 308 and a certain rear axle combination and dual exhaust?

Yeah, maybe HT-HG L31 plus M35, M40 or M21 in Premier, Kingswood or Belmont with 3.08 or 2.78 rear axle (I think banjo with auto or Salisbury 3.08 with manual). Is 2806822 a U21 dash plus the GTS's speedo or is it a standard dash with the 140mph speedo? If it is a U21 dash with column auto cutout then it means all of those cars I mentioned in the first sentence should have this dash option or the whole dash out of a GTS if console or floor shift. I did buy an original L31 M35 HT Kingswood sedan with column shift once and we swapped drivelines over with my mate's Inca Gold HK 6cyl auto Premier sedan. That HT didn't have a U21 dash in it. I think its diff was a 2.78:1, possibly 3.08. I can't remember if he changed the diffs over as I think the HK already had a 3.08 ratio conversion done in prior years. The HT was a single exhaust car too from memory.

Edit - I just looked at the HG Passenger Order Procedure. U21 dash simply says standard with GTS models and GTS350, and is available for fitment to all other models. There is no mention of it being mandatory (the order form is pretty specific with what is mandatory and when) with L31 and a certain rear axle ratio or with N10 dual exhaust.


Back to the original subject, what is interesting in the HG Order Form and Procedure is the text against M11 says that if you ticked M40 (Trimatic) and A50 (fixed buckets) or XS6 (reclining buckets) you automatically got M11 console shift unless you also ticked D55 (seat separator). Basically M11 is the mandatory option with M40 and A50/XS6 unless you further optioned D55. This stands out as it is in contrast to HQ where D55 came automatically with bucket seats unless you further optioned M11. The HG Procedure goes further and says that D55 only becomes mandatory in Belmont with bucket seats as M11 not available.

HG Commercial Order Form and Procedure is also confusing. It says there is no column shift option for M31 and that L31 always has to come with A50 (fixed buckets), and there is no M11 console shift option anywhere in the form or procedure. This is all fine and good if the driveline is L31 M21 which comes simply as a floor shift, however the form and procedure also show M40 Trimatic as an option with all engines. So if L31 isn't available with column shift, and D55 (seat separator) is mandatory with A50 buckets (except when M21 ordered) how does the M40 Trimatic shift? Can't be column shift with L31. Can't be console shift as there is no M11 in commercials, plus D55 came with A50 as there is no M21???? It isn't just a mistake as it is all through the form and procedure, yet it is clear in at least four places including the powertrain chart (specific to commercials) that L31 M40 G92 (2.78) is a standard driveline option (obviously with G93 (3.08 banjo) or G88 (3.36 Sals) being optional rear axle ratios with L31 M40 as well).

Edited by user Wednesday, 28 September 2016 9:10:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I recon the same, that the HQ SS is 120mph so why would anything but a 308 or 350 would get the 140mph speedo.
The only reason why a sandman or a optioned setup would get 140mph may have to do as to where the car was made.
HQ 308 and 350 kingswood statesman gets only a 120mph speedo.


My stock HQ 202 manual kingswood would do 100mph on a flat road and I did many many miles sitting on 100mph it loved it and my brothers HQ 173 back in 1979 I remember it doing 100mph on the highway and then he jumped on the brakes as hard as he could and got full on brake fade at about 30mph with the 4 wheel drums brakes, that we then labelled such setups as quick fades.

You can't blow up a 202

There was no console shift in HG commercials, and HT was probably the same. HK Kingswood ute had console shift but possibly only for 4spd.

You'd think that in HG 308 would be available as an auto, but the order procedure spells it out quite clearly in a few places that there was no column shift 308 however as you say Castellan it probably means column shift manual which means that 308 auto was auto on the column with bench or with buckets and seat separator which makes more sense.

The 253 was the only column shift V8 manual. The HT V8 3spd does appear to be built to handle a 308 though (like the M21 aussie 4spd) as in the HT Engineering specs the close ratio V8 3spd has a far higher torque rating than the 6cyl box, but after HT the V8 3spd became the same ratios as a 6cyl but box with a longer input shaft (same deal as standard 6cyl and V8 aussie 4spd M20 box).

I reckon there would have been a market in HT-HG for a 308 3spd manual with bench seat especially for towing. The reverse gear in an Aussie 3spd box is far superior for reversing over an aussie 4spd (except M22) or a Saginaw 4spd especially up hill. A aussie 3spd has a 3.59:1 reverse gear, whereas an M21 Saginaw is 2.54:1 reverse, the same as an aussie M21 and the aussie M20 is 3.05:1. Even the M22 Saginaw is 2.85:1 reverse. A HT-HG 308 3spd would probably be OK with a 3.08 rear axle as well given that reverse gear, and certainly a good thing with the standard 3.36 rear axle. Ever tried reversing anything heavy with an aussie M21 in it? Ain't much fun for the clutch!

I agree with the strength of the 3sp box.
I hate 3sp manuals on the tree my self I can't stand driving them or to even look at one I nearly thro up.
The M21 always came with HD clutch, I can't say I remember having a problem with reversing with the M21 L31 3.08 diff in my Sandman Van, I would just get it rolling and then use the torque, that bastard would probably go through a garage brick wall if you turned the key by accident in gear from outside of the car.
I had a new 1992 mazda bravo 2.6L and it was crap for reverse up steep driveways and a 1993 XG ute with the 4.0L 5sp manual and taking off at times was a flat to the floor job up some hills with a load, it had a 3.27 diff and them 4.0L OHC motors were gutless crap right down low, but over 2000rpm they went real well compared to a 4.1L.

Yep you are correct it's just the speedo reading I got, and stock air filter on all.

I have a 2015 Lancer GSR and I believe the speedo is out by 4 KM/H at 100KM/H I can get another reading that comes up that tells me this is the case as I go through the computer settings, my wife has a 2011 Aurion as well and I am sure it's out by 4KM/H at 100 as well, the stupid pricks do this crap for some reason, some people wind a clock forward 5 min for stupid reasons as well, I hate that crap mentality as well but I suppose it works for some. so we have all this mob driving at 4k lower and some playing it safe driving under what it's saying just to be sure to be sure and 100KM/H speed limited trucks are up your arse and over taking you all the time and all the rest.
They should have up radar sign points on the highway that show up your true speed is and then people can work out how far out there speedo is, nowadays with the insane laws we have of morons claiming every k over is a killer and playing a Hitler power trip with such crap.

I thought all manual 3.3L 1 Ton where M22 with 4.44 diff.

with the Lancer GSR I just sat on the highway on cruse control set on a flat road and then just set the average speed display menu function and up it comes 96KM/H and the speedo reads dead 100 KM/H, now I think hang about, how can this be, the speedo must be out and the trip odometer must be correct and that's why every bugger is passing me, so now I sit on 104KM/H in 100 so I am not holding up the other drivers.

The odometer works forward even if you are reversing, so if you went 1KM in reverse it will not go reading backwards, but only forwards.

I have never used a satnav GPS.

Yes I know you are correct with the HQ 1 tonne and all.

I used to be the best reverser in the world with a trailer when I was about 12yo and I would drive around our mansion bloody fast in reverse with the old mans trailer, but then again some trailer's are well setup and some are bastards to reverse and can be crap on the highway and get even worse at high speeds. my old man would sit on 90mph on the highway with a trailer or caravan with his 1971 LTD Galaxie and it just floated along with no problem at all just cruising along and could reverse down shitty job sites mud and pot holes not to mention off camber crappy stuff that would have me saying f that nowadays. just having a handle on the clutch the correct way can make a big difference I know some are a bit grabby and so forth but if you rev it that's a no no, do that driving a truck and end up get the arse on the spot. when I started driving a excavator all the hydraulics leavers were all different to the feel, the bastards were not all the same in how they performed much like some clutch will bite right down low to the floor and some near the end and different feel as well.

I think a lot of new trailers camber and toe-in can change, as they look so flimsy and use short crappy springs, so the pressure when reversing loaded up makes it want to do stupid things so you have little control over it, I think just the right positive camber and the correct toe out must be found, I would think, may be wrong, what do you think.

I had a bloke with a trailer he made up for the sand on Fraser Island and he put Austin 1800 rear setup on it so she would not be dragging the axle beam through the sand back in the 70's and it looked the ducks nuts.