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Cairns888 Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 11:51:58 AM(UTC)
Cairns888

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Hi all,

I just purchased a nice HT wagon.

First holden in a long time.

Are the factory birth certificates any good?

I purchased the car with a 350 but it turns out the numbers are for a 307.

Any way of knowing engine numbers from vin?

So many questions.

Cheers

Jim
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Sandaro Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 12:34:33 PM(UTC)
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Good to hear you got a nice one. Great looking cruisers.

If you post all the numbers off all the plates and engine numbers and casting number on block people on here will be able to tell you (or give a good idea) what you have.

But to answer a few questions, it never would have come out with a 350 from factory. The Vin or other tags will not let you know the engine number. They will confirm if it was a V8 originally, then its a matter of other clues pointing to which V8.
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HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 12:46:08 PM(UTC)
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You can’t get HHS reports for pre HQ Holden.

If you give me the engine number and the vehicle’s other plate details plus chassis number I will be able to tell you if the engine number doesn’t belong,

Lots of 307 were turned into 350, easy to do, just an 1:8” overbite and a 3.48” stroke crankshaft. Lots of other engines have had 307 numbers put on them too. Get the block casting number too.
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Cairns888 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 12:46:49 PM(UTC)
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Ok
edited

Edited by user Thursday, 22 October 2020 3:01:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Sandaro Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 2:55:12 PM(UTC)
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It would have started out as a 6 cylinder Kingswood wagon. Others will be able to help you out on the origins of the engine
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HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 2:58:21 PM(UTC)
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I can tell you that engine wasn't original in that car.

The car is an Acacia Ridge (Brisbane) built and assembled HT Kingswood wagon which would have been either a 161 or a 186 or 186S originally (or possibly one of the low compression 161 or 186 engines too). To be original with a V8 it would have to have been a HT V8 Kingswood wagon which would have an 80435 model code.

Plus the car is way too late to have had a 307 originally, it is a 1970 (calendar year) plated HT so built from January 1970. 307's were finished by then. AND it is a manual (big M on the end of the model code) which is impossible to be a 307 manual HT anywhere past initial production. Being a 6cyl manual it could have been either an M15 3spd or an M20 4spd. I don't think you could option a heavy duty 4spd (M21 or M22) in a 6cyl HT Kingswood wagon.

The 307 engine however is actually an Acacia Ridge 307 engine but it will be from a HK, probably later in 1968 maybe into early 1970. My red GTS327 was assembled in October 1968 and it was 3270126x so this is just over 300 V8 engines later. The casting number you have given 3914636 is a McKinnon Industries SBC design 307 which is what was in HK and HT Holden. It could easily have been bored 1/8" over and be now 327ci or had a 350 crankshaft fitted and be 350ci. I have seen these running at 4.030" overbored from a standard 3.875". Does it still have its 307 heads? They work OK on a 327 (identical specification head to a HK GT327 head) but on a 350 they are very restrictive.

It was originally Kashmir White over Tunisian Turquoise. The GMH paint code of 1285 gives you this. 13E trim will be Turquoise vinyl, might be called Turquoise Mist trim, not sure if Kingswood is called this like Monaro and GTS.
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Cairns888 on 22/10/2020(UTC)
Cairns888 Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 3:06:08 PM(UTC)
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Wow,

Thanks so much.
All of that matches what I could find as well.
Not sure about the heads on there. The number on the heads is 5207 (passenger front of head) but I haven't taken the rocker cover off to have a look at the casting numbers.
I'll do that tonight.

Awesome stuff.

Is there a link to the differences between auto and manuals and V8 to 6 differences?

Thanks again. Greatly appreciated and your PM box is full HK1837
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Cairns888 Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 3:14:22 PM(UTC)
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Heads are 3911032
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HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 3:18:06 PM(UTC)
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Those are the matching heads for the block. 70cc chambers, 1.72/1.5 valves and small ports. Standard design heads for 1968 307 (200hp) and 1968 327 210hp and 250hp.
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Cairns888 on 22/10/2020(UTC)
Cairns888 Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 3:34:33 PM(UTC)
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ok,

sounds like i need to get a volume tester hooked up on the spark plug hole?
The 307 and 327 have same stroke?
Any other ideas on how to tell the 307 or 327?
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HK1837 Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 4:45:14 PM(UTC)
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Pull the heads off and measure the bore. Doesn’t really matter, it was originally a 307.

Yes 307 and 327 are both 3.25” stroke.

The factory SBC and SBC design capacities go something like this, in roughly chronological order:

265ci. 3.75” bore, 3” stroke.
283ci. 3.875” bore, 3” stroke.
327ci. 4” bore, 3.25” stroke.
377ci. 4” bore, 3.75” stroke.
350ci. 4” bore, 3.48” stroke.
302ci. 4” bore, 3” stroke.
307ci. 3.875” bore, 3.25” stroke.
400ci. 4.125” bore, 3.75” stroke.
262ci. 3 2/3” bore, 3.1” stroke.
305ci. 3.736” bore, 3.48” stroke.
267ci. 3.5” bore, 3.48” stroke.

Edited by user Thursday, 22 October 2020 7:03:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Cairns888 Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 6:45:50 PM(UTC)
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Yeah, I apologise. I thought you were referring to the 307 and 327 having that same number from factory. So did the factory 327's had 327xxxx's?
I think I was also confused when reading another google paragraph where they've seen 307xxxx numbers not being 307's from factory.

I was sold a 350 and it's not, unless it's a 350 cubic inch engine built on a 307 block?

Maybe that's why the car doesn't move forward in gear with my foot off the brake as it apparently has a 3000 stall converter and a massive mismatch between 307 and 350.

Oh the joys.
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HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, 22 October 2020 7:03:13 PM(UTC)
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They do have the same GMH engine numbers, as do the 350’s. The difference is the 307, 327 or 350 prefix.

Yes it could easily be a 307 bored and stroked to 350. Or it could also could have been built as a 283, 302, 327 or 377 using different pistons and crankshafts.

Stall of any converter is dependant on engine torque so a converter will behave differently between a 307 and a 350.
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Cairns888 on 23/10/2020(UTC)
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