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Smitty2 Offline
#41 Posted : Tuesday, 1 June 2021 9:33:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
.............................

GMH didn’t really have the capability to do small volume machining. They almost always outsourced it. Almost everything they put into cars came from outside suppliers, they essentially only cast stuff and pressed sheetmetal, and built cars and components from it. When the first few hundred GTS350 manual engines got water damaged they had Repco rebuild them, they didn’t have the ability to do it, or at least to do it economically. Even the minor machining on the bore tops on those final bigger valve XU1 engines was done outside of GMH I believe.

....


actually, having spent a number of years working in the engine and transmission plants at Port Melbourne, I would say they had the 'capability' but not the desire.

Their lathes, boring machines, tapping machines.. all totalled an actual engine manufacturing line. Stick a 'fettled' raw v8 block at the end that says 'start ...
and maybe ( I forget actually how long) a naked new clean fully machined engine block (with matching caps) would pop out the other end.

That end would be hooked on the conveyor and wizz across the plant to start the assembly process. With machined (balanced) crank waiting and pistons
already on rods, the machined block would again drop on an assembly line and have the bits fitted to make an engine.

I said capability ... but not the desire. Those various machines could be set up to do just any sort of machining, drilling, threading operation but unlike
todays computer controlled CNC machining centres which take very little, even zero setup and can do up to 16 things * on a piece of metal in one pass,
these GMH production machines took hours to setup, to change setups and first-off scrap rates were horrendous whilst engineers got things 'accurate'.

Why do it... ? when the time for setup will probably be longer than the time to make a batch of 'special' heads?



* I still work in manufacturing.... for a company that makes 3-4 million metal parts a month. All of those go thru computer controlled machining centres
(vastly bigger than the GMH machines) ... feed in a blank piece of metal and up to 16 drilling, threading, boring, indexing, chamfering, surface finish
operations happen in the one place... in one machine. VERY quickly. You get a complete part out the other end that has been laser checked for accuracy...
most dimensions are down to 0.001mm and scrap rates? Month of May ( I got the results today... ) how about 0.03% of all input??
On a machine that makes more than 300,000 parts a month.. break a tool and it takes 3-4 minutes to replace and set up for the next part??
About 20-30 mins ...
Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
castellan Offline
#42 Posted : Thursday, 3 June 2021 8:30:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
............................

I doubt it that YT was making XU-1 heads or L34 heads for Holden, the only thing that I know of was with the Blue heads for Brock that YT was doing them for Brock. and Holden had cast some heads for Brock.

..



GMH never cast 'heads' for Brock.. ever*

VC SL/E Commodores that became HDT Commodores... had standard XT5 'enhanced performance' blue 308 engines fitted and
HDT mules ripped the heads off when the cars arrived in Nort Melbourne and they were sent to Perfectune in Moorabbin .. for a large
valve/standard bowl CNC jobbie Something Perfectune were very good at.

Even the famous 'B' cast heads were never done for HDT or Brock. They were done as part of the homologation process
for the engine fitted to VKSS model as well as the VKSS GrpA (aka A9L) model. Part identification was one reason for that
famous 'B' scratched in the sand mould by whichever production foundry inspector happened to be there (keeping count)

Even the later and better 'big valve' (but no scratched in 'B' on the casting) unleaded petrol head used on VL - on both standard SL's etc
and the carby VL SS GrpA was a better head than that used on the VK .... which was also a better head used on VC


As far as I know the VC HDT did not have YT valves but L34 valves.

I think the Group 3 VH-K heads used the same as the VC HDT but for stronger valve springs.

The VL 5.0L were YT heads with YT valves and standard valve springs. as to being better ? better as to unleaded fuel is all and flame hardened around the combustion chamber to harden the casting around the valves due to unleaded fuel.

As to the casting of the blue and black heads are the ports all are the same or do B scratched have bigger ports ? or just cast with more meat thickness behind reducing the water jackets a touch more.

In the HT-G V8 it is claimed that the combustion chamber wall thickness is less to the HQ heads, so the HQ castings were made thicker in that spot.

Now I believe that not all casting are totally the same as to core shift on any head, so if one is set on cutting into the ports big time then one has to inspect the casting to see if it's a good example, just like one has to with a Block if you are going to put a lot of power through it.

I had on my pre ADR27A 308 what was called stage 3 heads with L34 valves and a port work only on the start on the intake and the exhaust face and stronger valve springs and combustion chamber around the intake valve nearest to the head gasket side like. I believe if I went for YT heads the only difference was in the material of the valves and the L34 intake head has a dip in the face of the head to make it lighter and the YT is just only flat across it's face. I think that the YT and L34 valves heads are much the same size.

You will not see Holden cast on L34 valves, but for when it comes to VN V8's they look like typical Holden valves on the face of the head and then with the Sequential 195KW exhaust valve they get a thinner stem to the head that sits in the port but the stem in the guide is normal size, so it flows better. the Holden 5.7L in the VT series 1 gets this valve as well.
HK1837 Offline
#43 Posted : Thursday, 3 June 2021 8:46:02 PM(UTC)
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Yella Terra was a brand. Perfectune was a Company. GMH (and HDT) had Perfectune do the machine work for them. They would have used whatever valves, springs etc that were supplied to them by GMH. The L34’s valves would have just been off the shelf GM valves.

I’ve never heard of HQ heads being any different to HT-G heads other than the addition of the extra accessory hole on the ends. However it is possible they refined the patterns.

I remember when my mate wanted to fit L34 valves and hardened exhaust seats to his VK heads, Perfectune told him to use red pollution heads as they had more material behind the chambers. I still have the heads and the intake off that VK in my shed. It was a manual 5.0L but built after they had finished building the 5000 engines for GroupA homologation, so it still had the HDT style intake but had stock heads.
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castellan Offline
#44 Posted : Friday, 4 June 2021 9:14:33 PM(UTC)
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Looking into the HZ Statesman SL/E I love the look of them and I knew a dude who had one from new. I did not dig the wheels much but with them wire wheels sets them off.
Being a limited run, maybe they made them in a batch and you could not factory option a 3.08 diff or LSD I suppose.

I wonder how many Statesman's were made of each model and type.
I seen WB are 5450 De ville and 3055 Caprice.

I seen Brock saying 3 WB Magnum utes were made and seen a blue one shown on the interview. I have never seen a Statesman Magnum, brock claimed they were all 3.08 diffs. Brock claims maybe 250 were made and that many were partial builds.
If I were to of got one back in the day I would say only have the engine and 3.08 diff done, I do not dig the bumpers etc not being chrome and I don't dig the wheels. they handle well stock as a mate had a WB Caprice back in 1985 and cut loose in it, but it was gutless, I wanted to buy that car but I had no money, it was white 1980 model with blue leather seats.
wbute Offline
#45 Posted : Friday, 4 June 2021 9:38:59 PM(UTC)
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There was one Magnum Ute. It was based on a white 6 cylinder Ute. They converted it to a stroker motor and Statesman interior and front. Wasn’t finished until about 87.
The blue one is a fake based on a wrecked Magnum statesman.
HK1837 Offline
#46 Posted : Saturday, 5 June 2021 11:05:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Looking into the HZ Statesman SL/E I love the look of them and I knew a dude who had one from new. I did not dig the wheels much but with them wire wheels sets them off.
Being a limited run, maybe they made them in a batch and you could not factory option a 3.08 diff or LSD I suppose.

I wonder how many Statesman's were made of each model and type.
I seen WB are 5450 De ville and 3055 Caprice.

I seen Brock saying 3 WB Magnum utes were made and seen a blue one shown on the interview. I have never seen a Statesman Magnum, brock claimed they were all 3.08 diffs. Brock claims maybe 250 were made and that many were partial builds.
If I were to of got one back in the day I would say only have the engine and 3.08 diff done, I do not dig the bumpers etc not being chrome and I don't dig the wheels. they handle well stock as a mate had a WB Caprice back in 1985 and cut loose in it, but it was gutless, I wanted to buy that car but I had no money, it was white 1980 model with blue leather seats.


SL/E was a limited build, sat between a Deville and a Caprice. It was essentially a cut down Caprice with the following:

CA2 Delete soft trim roof.
XS9 Vinyl and Nylon cloth trim.
N67 14x6 alloy Rally rims.
NK3 Sports steering wheel.
U17 Cluster Assembly Instrument.

So it was a Caprice, minus the soft vinyl roof, minus the Caprice leather seats, dash and steering wheel and lost the Caprice dress rims. And gained the dash, wheels and steering wheels off the GTS and Sandman plus a unique seat material and grille. The grille was a chromed plastic piece of junk that deteriorated badly over time.

At the time SL/E was made they all would have been L31 M41 (TH350) and GU4 (3.08) with GV4 (3.36) optional. I doubt any were made with 3.36 though as I don't think you could retail order an SL/E, they were all stock order so probably no G80 LSD either.

I don't know where you found those WB build figures, totally wrong! There were 9719 Deville and 4208 Caprice in WB. There was 53559 Statesman, Deville and Caprice built all up but this won't include the Statesman base LWB models sold into NZ, Thailand, South Africa, Japan etc or probably not the HQ XU7 cars either (XU7 were 350 and later 253).

HZ and WB were probably the better driver's cars off the showroom floor, but a HQ 350 or a HJ would be the best as a long distance tourer due to their superior engines, you'd just want to get aftermarket suspension fitted to make them go around corners better. All you'd need for the HQ 350 would be a set of fuelie heads to get compression up to about 9.5:1 and dual exhaust. The HJ just dual exhaust as it already had decent compression and cam.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
castellan Offline
#47 Posted : Saturday, 5 June 2021 1:16:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Looking into the HZ Statesman SL/E I love the look of them and I knew a dude who had one from new. I did not dig the wheels much but with them wire wheels sets them off.
Being a limited run, maybe they made them in a batch and you could not factory option a 3.08 diff or LSD I suppose.

I wonder how many Statesman's were made of each model and type.
I seen WB are 5450 De ville and 3055 Caprice.

I seen Brock saying 3 WB Magnum utes were made and seen a blue one shown on the interview. I have never seen a Statesman Magnum, brock claimed they were all 3.08 diffs. Brock claims maybe 250 were made and that many were partial builds.
If I were to of got one back in the day I would say only have the engine and 3.08 diff done, I do not dig the bumpers etc not being chrome and I don't dig the wheels. they handle well stock as a mate had a WB Caprice back in 1985 and cut loose in it, but it was gutless, I wanted to buy that car but I had no money, it was white 1980 model with blue leather seats.


SL/E was a limited build, sat between a Deville and a Caprice. It was essentially a cut down Caprice with the following:

CA2 Delete soft trim roof.
XS9 Vinyl and Nylon cloth trim.
N67 14x6 alloy Rally rims.
NK3 Sports steering wheel.
U17 Cluster Assembly Instrument.

So it was a Caprice, minus the soft vinyl roof, minus the Caprice leather seats, dash and steering wheel and lost the Caprice dress rims. And gained the dash, wheels and steering wheels off the GTS and Sandman plus a unique seat material and grille. The grille was a chromed plastic piece of junk that deteriorated badly over time.

At the time SL/E was made they all would have been L31 M41 (TH350) and GU4 (3.08) with GV4 (3.36) optional. I doubt any were made with 3.36 though as I don't think you could retail order an SL/E, they were all stock order so probably no G80 LSD either.

I don't know where you found those WB build figures, totally wrong! There were 9719 Deville and 4208 Caprice in WB. There was 53559 Statesman, Deville and Caprice built all up but this won't include the Statesman base LWB models sold into NZ, Thailand, South Africa, Japan etc or probably not the HQ XU7 cars either (XU7 were 350 and later 253).

HZ and WB were probably the better driver's cars off the showroom floor, but a HQ 350 or a HJ would be the best as a long distance tourer due to their superior engines, you'd just want to get aftermarket suspension fitted to make them go around corners better. All you'd need for the HQ 350 would be a set of fuelie heads to get compression up to about 9.5:1 and dual exhaust. The HJ just dual exhaust as it already had decent compression and cam.



I came up on the Net with recorded video of Brock and Harvey interview.

I thought all 5.0L Statesman's came out with the high ratio diffs 2.78 or 2.60 std and one had to option a 3.08, why would the HZ SL/E be any different ? never heard of a 3.36 option for a statesman, why would anyone want that in such a car from factory.

A old bloke who I know had 2 of them HZ SL/E grills like new sitting in plastic above a locker some years ago, he showed me them smiling. he once had owned a Holden dealership but he is dead now. he owned every model Brougham and every year model Statesman up to WB and still had the WB when I seen him last, he was boasting about it and that he had got rid of his HZ only a year before and he put a brand new 350 chev in that back in 1979 or 1980.
HK1837 Offline
#48 Posted : Saturday, 5 June 2021 2:06:04 PM(UTC)
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2.78 used to be the Statesman diff and was replaced by 2.6 during HX. The 2.6 was dropped from HZ in late 1978.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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