Dr Terry,
The model number is hard to read due to sikaflex from a second rate windscreen fitter. The information cant be garnished from the body number and other details? what i can see is HX8, from here i think W and either N or M, then B or 8, ending with 0. This is somewhat confusing, and, not knowing of its importance i have omitted this number. What do you reccomend for the removal of the offending substance? I feel i must add that air con, and possably power steering, were factory fitted to this particular utility. The colour is white with brown Kingswood interior.
I hope this additional information proves fruitful.
Again, my thanks.
Andrew Rozenchu.

quote:

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Originally posted by Byron Rich
Andrew

Assuming the plates match (they look to) and there is no mistakes on the plates it can only be one of two things:

HX XX7 Sandman ute - model code will be HX8WM80, VIN will be 8M80TGL37xxxxX; OR

HX XU4 HOLDEN or KINGSWOOD ute - model codes HX8WM80 or HX8WN80, VIN as above except Kingswood will begin with 8N80.

It is more likely to be a Sandman than not, but unfortunately with a 67V trim code I cannot tell whether it is or if its an XU4. If it is a Kingswood then its not a Sandman. To be a Sandman is has to have a seating capacity of 2 on the ADR plate and have a T-bar (not column shift).

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?

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Mr Byron Rich
This information does cause some confusion, Why would it not be a Sandman if it is Kingswood based?, you yourself have documented more than one Kingswood based Sandman. The VIN you quoted is correct with the exception of the letter "G" being replaced with "R", Could you please tell me what this code means.
Again, my thanks for your time and research.
Andrew Rozenchu.

Dr Terry,
I appreaciate your time and input on this matter, I was told Mr Rich is "THE Sandman guru" and is his that i should be persuing, though i welcome anyone with the required knowledge.
Furthermore, i appologise for my previous error. The "R" in question does, infact, replace the letter "T", and not the "G" as prevously mentioned.
The VIN you mentioned is 8N80RGL3 etc. This would be that the vehicle in question is actually a Kingswood (8N80) and therefore NOT a Sandman, but the closest thing to being one without actually being it. Am i correct?
Looking forward to you reply,
Andrew Rozenchu.

I thank you both, Dr Terry and Mr Rich. i have learnt a good deal here. However, I have one final question. How does this vehicle come to have such a light GVW?
Regards, Andrew Rozebchu.

Dr Terry,
I understand the vehicle i have is an option pack XU4. Perhaps i could have phrased my question better, i am wondering what options are required to necessatate a GVW of 1860 kg of a V8 fitted utility. I appolgise for the continual requests for information but i have become rather curious of this car of late, and have no desire to be continually perplexed over what may seem a trivial matter.
As allways, my thanks for your efforts.
Andrew Rozenchu.

In HQ Holden released the Sandman as option XX7 with no change to the GVW of 4850lb (2200kg) for the V8 and 4750lb (2155kg) for the 6cyl versions. XX7 included sedan tyres. This was for vans and I assume utes were the same but I have hardly any of these recorded so that is open to clarification.

In HJ the XU3 Sandman became available - these were the same as an XX7 but load rated ie commercial tyres were fitted allowing for a 14.5cwt (XX7 was 10cwt). XU3 GVWs stayed the same as the rest of the range ie 2200kg V8, 2155kg 6cyl but XX7 optioned examples had lower GVWs - utes and 6cyl vans at 1860kg and V8 vans at 1950kg. Holden also released the same sedan tyre option on non-Sandman utes/vans and called it an XU4 option. XU4s had the same GVWs as the Sandmans.

HX stayed the same as HJ, but HZ for some reason changed. Later HZ XX7s became 2000kg, and the XU4s changed to:
6cyl XU4 HOLDEN and Kingswood ute - 1800kg (1860kg in HX).
6cyl XU4 HOLDEN and Kingswood van - 1900kg (1860kg in HX).
V8 XU4 HOLDEN and Kingswood ute - 1900kg.
V8 XU4 HOLDEN and Kingswood van - 1950kg (HX and HZ).

In the end for some reason Holden distinguished between 6cyl and V8 XX7 van GVWs but not in utes? I would have thought that vans were heavier, so I suppose that in order to get 10cwt carrying capacity they would have had the increase the GVW, but surely a V8 is heavier than a 6 as well so why did the ute stay at 1860kg for both?


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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?

Hi again.

Now Ive got your question.

AFAIK the only difference between the normal commercial load rating cars & those with the lighter 500 kg rating (i.e. XX7/XU4) is the tyre type.

The rest of the car, chassis, springs, shocks & brakes etc are unchanged.

A normal Holden HJ/HX/HZ ute or van that is rated to carry 750 kg (3/4 ton or 15 cwt in imperial measure) comes fitted with at least 6-ply heavy duty tyres (& up to 10-ply for some model One Tonners). These result in a harsher, noisier ride, but they carry heavy loads safely & legally. If a prospective commercial purchaser doesnt intend to carry heavy loads, for instance he might just want it for camping or weekend use (e.g. a Sandman) he can order the car with passenger type 4-ply tyres which ride smoother & quieter as well as probably handling better, but legally that car cannot now carry heavy loads. This is where the GVW comes in. Prior to the introduction of the Compliance plate (1st Jan 1970) commercial vehicles had a Gross Load Limit plate on the firewall. When Compliance plates were introduced, the GVW figure was included on the plate to simplify things. The problem is Holden cannot legally fit low load rating tyres to a commercial vehicle & leave the (high) GVW figure on the plate. By law it must have the lower figure.

Where I have mentioned 4-ply & 6-ply tyres etc, these refer to the old cross-ply type tyre. The modern radial equivalents use a different load rating system, but it has the same result. I just find it easier to refer to them in old school speak.

You could fit 6-ply commercial tyres to an XU4 & then safely carry heavy loads. But technically its probably not legal. I have never heard of anyone being booked because they had a heavy load in a car that had the lighter figure on the Compliance plate, but now had the commercial tyres fitted. You would probably find that the average copper doesnt know the existance of a XU4 type option anyway.

Hope that answers the query for Andrew.

Dr Terry.

What isnt clear is how Holden derated the vehicles. There must have been some science to it, but it doesnt make sense in some areas..
The difference in GVW for a 6cyl and V8 in a "normal" van or ute was 45kg (2155kg 6cyl, 2200kg V8). Here I assume they were 45kg different in weight due to the V8 or if not that is the reason for the heavier GVW in the V8 anyway, and perhaps the absolute design limit for say the suspension is 2200kg.
The difference between the GVW of a HJ/HX 6cyl XX7 and V8 XX7 van is 90kg (1860kg vs 1950kg) - this is closer to my expectations for the difference between 6cyl and V8 weight.
Yet for some reason the GVW of the V8 XX7 HJ-HX ute stays at 1860kg - the same as the 6cyl. This doesnt seem to make sense given the normal utes 2155kg 6cyl and 2200kg V8 and additionally the 100kg difference in GVW between a HZ 6cyl XU4 ute and a V8 example (1800kg vs 1900kg). Holden "fixed" this is HZ though raising the V8 XX7 ute to 1950kg.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?

Thats because there was no Kingswood van until HX, and Holden ceased the Kingswood Sandman ute by the end of HJ. The optional 500kg model is just the XX7 in HJ-HZ. Yes they are correct that HX and HZ have stock guards. In the HJ brochure on page 172 of that publication you can see that the ute is a Kingswood by the stainless mouldings around the side windows. Also the Kingswood side strips are missing, which is the best way to pick an original HJ Kingswood Sandman ute.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?

Hi there.
Would be able to check out these details for me please:
MODEL: HZ8WM70
BODY: 425148-A
TRIM: 1935-63V
PAINT: 567-30526
ENG: L31
TRANS: M41
R/AXLE: GU4
GVM: 2200
SEAT CAP: 2
It also has A/C and column auto with GTS dash,and a full hood lining.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Craig