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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
I had one of those I ordered new, white with black leather. Useless as a ute or a tow car though hence why I sold it pretty quickly.
I only carry about 300 kg of tools mainly and i ride a dirt bike so she comes in handy and sleep in the back out in the sticks. can't sleep in the back of a VE as it's too short. I have the hothouse green and hate vinyl seats the so called leather ? so she is cloth. all you need do is go for airbags in the rear if you tow etc. It's still like brand new apart from two teeth marks in the bonnet. And all i have done is remove the speed limiter and replaced a water pump and clutch.
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Mine was a really good car, but as a tow car absolutely useless. Airbags would have made zero difference to the towing capacity, I can't remember if it was 1200kg or 1600kg max but still not enough. Manual gearing was no good either for towing, it used to struggle with a small 750kg max trailer. I should have waited and bought a VY or VZ cab chassis V8 auto. I sold mine for more than it cost me as I had access to National Fleet discount, and replaced it with the HZ Overlander cab-chassis. |
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
Yes they might have steered better and tyres had improved drastically but to drive a new VH SL/E 3.3 and then jump in a Cressida it was like chalk and cheese. The comparison between a VK Calais and its equivalent Cressida was even more of a gap.
I disagree with your comments re: the Cressida. While the later Cressida (MX83, 1988-93) was a very good car, the MX 62 (the equivalent to the VC/VH Commodore SL/E) was not. These early Cressidas had commendable build quality, but didn't go or handle. The first Cressida with any performance qualities was the unleaded MX73 twin cam (1986-88), but they were still not as good as the later MX83. I also think the interior of the VK Calais was a letdown after the VB/VC/VH SL/Es. I've owned several early Commodores (near new) as family cars & they were very competent vehicles. Dr Terry |
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MX62 didn't handle but as stated the build quality and features were streets ahead of the SL/E. Whilst they could never compete with the V8 SL/E's in power they went heaps better than the clunky old carby 3.3 and trimatic. My dad bought one new in 1982 and it was up against the VH SL/E 3.3 auto. Cressida won hands down! I learnt to drive on that car and a WB 3.3 4spd van, original tyres on the MX62 were terrible but better tyres fixed the drive of the car heaps. It went a lot harder than the WB. The later cars with better engines were a big improvement I agree! It was the MX73 that I was comparing to the VK 3.3 Calais, although it looks like they didn't overlap by much. |
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
Mine was a really good car, but as a tow car absolutely useless. Airbags would have made zero difference to the towing capacity, I can't remember if it was 1200kg or 1600kg max but still not enough. Manual gearing was no good either for towing, it used to struggle with a small 750kg max trailer. I should have waited and bought a VY or VZ cab chassis V8 auto. I sold mine for more than it cost me as I had access to National Fleet discount, and replaced it with the HZ Overlander cab-chassis.
I don't know about towing as i gave that up years ago as i had a gut full of that. but a builder mate has the biggest trailer you could imagine but he went to the 3.9:1 diff ratio in his VY-Z ute's but he drives county not city and is a mental case how fast he drives even with that on and he says it's not a problem at all. When i first bought my VY it was a bastard to take off in 1st because the clutch was so grabby but it came good. not a problem after about 20,000km. When it comes to towing cap that can become a bit of a complex issue as to what is legal and how one has it set up to tow. i have driven some that are legal but rubbish and shockingly dangerous to drive as such.
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1600kg, I just looked up the original sales brochure for mine from when I bought it. Given my car trailer weights about 750kg when the spare and winch are on it leaves about 1000kg for a small car on the trailer (1600kg + 150kg towball weight). I know my manual version definitely wouldn't have liked towing that much behind it, simply taking off in first would have required some clutch slip. Gearing in 1st isn't that far off a HQ-HZ ute with 308 and M21, and the 5.7 LS1 has a bit less low rpm torque than a 308 plus weigh about 100-150kg more than a HQ-HZ V8 manual ute.
Couldn't fault the car as an everyday driver though, returned pretty good economy and drove nicely, just not a competent tow car. They really should have offered a leaf sprung rear end option. |
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I think you're being incredibly fussy Byron. My brother in law's previous work ute - an alloytec manual VZ did alright towing the Chev on the car trailer - longest trip was to Wagga & back. Certainly not quite as good as the VS Stato 5L the in-laws have setup properly for towing - but not far off it - the only downfall being the alloytec's lack of torque. The VZ ute was still quite a decent, safe, and comfortable tow car.
They've been through a string of tow cars over the years - starting with a HK in the early 70s, and the last leaf-springer was 15+ years ago (ironically he had an '81 LTD and an '83 Fairlane in the 90s, so back-to-back leaf vs coils was a comparison we did, and if you have decent coils, then you don't need leaves).
A well set-up IRS Commodore can still tow well - he's been using his VS Stato towing Chevs all over the east coast for the last 10 years, and I've used it several times towimg my VH race car. Even the FG I have now tows very well. Amongst all the car-club guys who tow cars long disances to the interstate rallies we attend, only a couple of cockys still think you need leaves to tow cars - everone else is using modern vehicles - the majority IRS Commodores & Falcons - wagons & sedans (SWB & LWB). |
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Not so much fussy, but the car cannot legally tow over 1600kg. I had a manual V6 2000 VSIII which I traded on the VY. It was a much better tow car than the VY. IRS is simply not as good as a solid rear axle. Yes a solid rear axle with coils can tow well but they need airbags whereas leaf springs don't necessarily need bags. I regularly tow about 2300kg and the last 3 x towcars do it easily ( HZ tonner, Cross8 and 2011 V6 auto SR5 Hilux). There is no way any IRS Holden or Commodore could do it as well, especially a manual one! |
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I had a HX 308 ute XG ute a V6 VS ute a V8 VS ute VY V8 ute and all manuals, not into towing but i did load them up with river sand once a week 1/2 m2 or so and always thought leaf springs were the go but the VS was very good carrying the weight but it would pogo type of ride even with HD shocks but it did not sway as much as a leaf sprung due to the rubber blocks i would think. The VY will just drop its diff on the ground but with bags it's fine.
I have found that with IRS you need very good shocks or it's all over the place and uncontrollable s*** box.
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I seen my builder mate and he had a VS SS and the VY SS and VZ SS utes and said his trailer was 1800 KG most of the time and up tp 3000 KG at times with the ute tray fully loaded as well and said it was better than the VS ute for towing and better than his D-MAX 4X4 to tow.
He says geomitry is the trick to a good towing set up something to to with wheelbase = that and the front axle of the trailer etc. 160km/h was fine towing 1800KG he says. and he tow's everyday like 40.00km a year.
He went right off the rocker when he bought the VZ SS ute when he found out they come with a 3.46 ratio diff he was spewing. but the vz ss sedan is 3.73 and he thought he could live with that, so he had to fork out to change the ratio back to 3.90 like he did with the VY.
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A VY SS ute with the wagon's 'Control Link" IRS set-up; I can't understand Holden's reason for omitting the adjustable links on the ute's IRS. Would have made adjusting the camber angle and toe-in a lot easier after lowering. Edited by user Tuesday, 7 January 2014 10:09:53 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Shearer
A VY SS ute with the wagon's 'Control Link" IRS set-up; I can't understand Holden's reason for omitting the adjustable links on the ute's IRS.
Would have made adjusting the camber angle and toe-in a lot easier after lowering.
I was talking to Peter Brock when the VU utes came out and i was test driving them and he said the rear arms are different on the ute to the sedan etc and not to put the links control on them due to this. they look the same to me but he pointed out they were not. I was baging the old VT setup as just junk and saying at least the control link is a step in the right direction. then he said don't do it on the ute.
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quote:
Originally posted by castellan
I seen my builder mate and he had a VS SS and the VY SS and VZ SS utes and said his trailer was 1800 KG most of the time and up tp 3000 KG at times with the ute tray fully loaded as well and said it was better than the VS ute for towing and better than his D-MAX 4X4 to tow.
He says geomitry is the trick to a good towing set up something to to with wheelbase = that and the front axle of the trailer etc. 160km/h was fine towing 1800KG he says. and he tow's everyday like 40.00km a year.
He went right off the rocker when he bought the VZ SS ute when he found out they come with a 3.46 ratio diff he was spewing. but the vz ss sedan is 3.73 and he thought he could live with that, so he had to fork out to change the ratio back to 3.90 like he did with the VY.
I had a VY SS manual new. It struggled badly with even a box trailer. Clutch burn on takeoff, useless with more than a few hunderd kg in the back. Was incapable of towing a car float properly. It was nowhere as capable as a tow vehicle as the VS V6 manual it replaced. I sold it with bugger all kM and replaced it with the 4x4 1-tonner. |
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
quote:
Originally posted by castellan
I seen my builder mate and he had a VS SS and the VY SS and VZ SS utes and said his trailer was 1800 KG most of the time and up tp 3000 KG at times with the ute tray fully loaded as well and said it was better than the VS ute for towing and better than his D-MAX 4X4 to tow.
He says geomitry is the trick to a good towing set up something to to with wheelbase = that and the front axle of the trailer etc. 160km/h was fine towing 1800KG he says. and he tow's everyday like 40.00km a year.
He went right off the rocker when he bought the VZ SS ute when he found out they come with a 3.46 ratio diff he was spewing. but the vz ss sedan is 3.73 and he thought he could live with that, so he had to fork out to change the ratio back to 3.90 like he did with the VY.
I had a VY SS manual new. It struggled badly with even a box trailer. Clutch burn on takeoff, useless with more than a few hunderd kg in the back. Was incapable of towing a car float properly. It was nowhere as capable as a tow vehicle as the VS V6 manual it replaced. I sold it with bugger all kM and replaced it with the 4x4 1-tonner.
when new my VY SS clutch was real graby the first say 10.000 km then it was ok but 1st is some what high. but it can tow anything that both my VS V6 or V8 could with the polly air bags in the rear. without the pollys the diff would touch the ground over little bumps and i carry as much as possible river sand and cement etc like once a week in the back of them. I gave up on the 1 tonne tray backs be it jap etc because the weight is to high and the fact is the jap tray backs etc they may be able legally to carry X amount of weight but they are downright dangerous to drive with that weight as you can't control the heap of trash in an emergency maneuver but with the ute you can as the difference is the ute is just magic but the tray back is just a rubbish death trap on wheels. Keeping the weight down low is the way to go. Edited by user Wednesday, 8 January 2014 9:09:58 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by castellan
I was talking to Peter Brock when the VU utes came out and i was test driving them and he said the rear arms are different on the ute to the sedan etc and not to put the links control on them due to this. they look the same to me but he pointed out they were not.
I was baging the old VT setup as just junk and saying at least the control link is a step in the right direction. then he said don't do it on the ute.
When the VUs came out I remember reading in a magazine about the utes controls where different, but is dismissed the info as gospel. Looks like I was wrong. I tow my Seadoo jetski with my VY SS ute and it pulls with easy, although I do have a tune (not MAFless) extractors and proper twin exhaust. Towing on the HWY fuel ecomony averages 11.5 litre per 100kays. I did put airbags inside the back springs as the ultras lows did sag quite a bit with 500kg jetski on the back. Being a manual it could easily do with lower diff gears then the 3.46. BTW Castellan, as reading a few posts ago mine is also Hot House Green but without the vinyl seats (sorry leather....)
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I think the 3.46 ratio is fine as far as the ute goes but if you tow 5th gear is the one for that. i put a bike in the back at times and i think the gearing is a little to high to get the best fuel economy as a mates VZ SS running 3.9 ratio is better with a bike in the back on the highway he bought the VZ thinking the diff ratio would be the same as the sedan 3.73 but was pissed right off when he found out the VZ ute came with 3.46 he was thinking he could live with 3.73 but had to pay to get the diff lowered like he did with his VY SS and went for 3.9 again.
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