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Smitty2 Offline
#21 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 6:57:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
..................

Smitty, do you know if the VAP’s (or their local BAP) assembled and painted their own front suspension? Or did they turn up complete? I’m thinking initially HK-HG and then later HQ-HZ.



I know that on LX/UC, HX/HZ and VB on Commodores, all the suspension components in the 3 VAPs I frequented ( Dandenong, Elizabeth and Acacia ridge)... rear axle arms, front A arms, various suspension links,
control arms, sway bars etc all arrived painted. The only things I recall that were not painted (and were left unpainted) were the sway bar links


HTH

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HK1837 Offline
#22 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 7:43:03 AM(UTC)
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Good info. The chassis for HQ-WB still elude me. Current thinking is commercial chassis were all made in the Dandenong truck facility, but passenger were welded and painted at the BAP’s or VAP’s.
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Dr Terry Offline
#23 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 9:06:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: munriman Go to Quoted Post

It would be great to compare both of these colours against an Holden X2 Holden Red. I have attached some pictures below of what I think is the same product being spruiked on Ebay as "NEW CORRECT HOLDEN ENGINE PAINT TO HD X2 HR X2 HR 186S 179 X2 186 X2 MOTOSPRAY", it shows the colour difference as I painted the top of the Oil Filler Tube with this so called X2 paint.


I've found most of the aftermarket spray cans to vary & are never close to the colour of the cap. I think that Motospray in particular have confused the X2 Engine Red with the old EH/HD/HR darker red.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Wednesday, 24 November 2021 9:07:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
munriman Offline
#24 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 3:27:54 PM(UTC)
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I agree with the paint cans, they vary quite dramatically sometimes. we can only really go off an original paint car, try to get a good clean patch, polish the perished or aged paint back to something fresh and then try to match it on more than one area to ensure consistency of colour. When there is a perfect or close to perfect match with a spray can colour (if possible) we can then go to KBS Coatings or some other reputable paint store and get a colour code matched up to a modern paint sample and then we should have it for future reference.

The confusion between the colour names is a huge problem, that is why its important to go back to original paint examples and try not to get hung up on paint names, the original paint sample is hopefully where the truth is.

Dr Terry Offline
#25 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 3:39:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: munriman Go to Quoted Post

The confusion between the colour names is a huge problem, that is why its important to go back to original paint examples and try not to get hung up on paint names, the original paint sample is hopefully where the truth is.


The confusion with colour names begins at GM-H.

Both the HD & HR factory workshop manuals list the X2 engines as being painted "Rocket Red" which became "X2 Engine Red".

They then named the new (later) colour "HK Rocket Red".

Dr Terry
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munriman Offline
#26 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 4:00:44 PM(UTC)
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That makes perfect sense, thank you, so understandably the names were interchangeable in the public spectrum. I have attached some picture of an original HK 186S I think 1969 built which looks to be an original paint motor. This has not been cleaned properly but does show some hue and can give perspective on this particular timeframe and motor. I will take all my paint samples over when I get a chance and do a comparison.

I am making an assumption here and I wont know for sure until I compare the two side by side, but on the face of it, it looks like the Chevy Orange out of the Duplicolor can. Personally I am not a fan, it looks like candy or lollypop pink in certain shades of light and from some of the information I am getting out of reputable paint suppliers, so far is that Rocket Red is the closest colour to Chevy Orange, again I would hate to get hung up on paint names, rather let the paint samples speak for themselves. Its interesting that the paint suppliers are treading on egg shells when askes about certain Holden colours.
HK1837 Offline
#27 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 4:49:31 PM(UTC)
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The unknown is whether HK-HG 186S were actually painted X2. It was only the performance Holden engines that were X2, and by association HQ Statesman 350 as well. Whether or not GMH regarded 186S in HK as a performance engine. Not sure about any Torana stuff, may only be relevant to Holden engines or possibly Torana as well.
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WagonDan Offline
#28 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 7:37:47 PM(UTC)
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Hey guys,


I've just joined as a member, although have been watching this thread (in the shadows) with great interest.


I thought I'd post some pictures of my original paint HR X2 engine, hopefully they are of some help.

Old girl has around 110,000 miles and was (still is) STD bore, so never had a 'major' overhaul.
I made sure not a single can of spray paint went anywhere near the engine, while we had it out earlier this year.


The underside photos were because I had to replace a worn lower control arm shaft, but show the engine colour pretty well.


Some great information here 👍



munriman Offline
#29 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 8:05:38 PM(UTC)
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Hi Wagon Dan, thanks for the great pictures.

Any chance of doing some paint samples next to your tappet cover i.e. get a can of Duplicolor Chevy Orange and see if its a match? I am in the process of getting some paint samples for what is known as Holden X2 Engine Red and Rocket Red from a reputable paint supplier that is supplying local cars with what is supposed to be correct paint colours. When I get some paint swatches painted up I will send them to you to see if we can get a match.
Sandaro Offline
#30 Posted : Wednesday, 24 November 2021 8:23:11 PM(UTC)
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Dan's HR x2 engine doesn't look (what I think of as) chevy orange to me. Looks to be the same as the red used on holden v8s (253&308) in the hqj era. Although I acknowledge that pictures can be deceiving too
Smitty2 Offline
#31 Posted : Thursday, 25 November 2021 7:33:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Good info. The chassis for HQ-WB still elude me. Current thinking is commercial chassis were all made in the Dandenong truck facility, but passenger were welded and painted at the BAP’s or VAP’s.


I have a recollection of HZ or WB chassis arriving by train at Dandenong, coming from SA (Woodville? Elizabeth?)
and they were painted...

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HK1837 Offline
#32 Posted : Thursday, 25 November 2021 8:11:22 AM(UTC)
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Dandenong didn’t build WB, and only built HZ utes, vans and cab-chassis from 9/77 to 12/77. So they must have been commercial chassis.
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 1 user thanked HK1837 for this useful post.
Smitty2 on 26/11/2021(UTC)
WagonDan Offline
#33 Posted : Thursday, 25 November 2021 6:17:38 PM(UTC)
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I've just checked online and my local Supercheap supposedly has a can of Duplicolor Chevy Orange in stock, which I'll try to pick up in the next day or 2 to get some samples and comparisons done over the weekend.


A good friend of ours also has an original paint X2 engine, in his Melbourne assembled HR Ute 😁


Hopefully I can get some samples against his Ute, along with my Wagon to give abit more assurance one way or the other 👍


This is the detailed engine bay of my Premier Wagon, which I repainted off a sample of an original paint X2 sideplate. Perhaps a different light the pic is taken in, but it's very close to my un-touched Special Wagon's engine.


munriman Offline
#34 Posted : Thursday, 25 November 2021 7:15:15 PM(UTC)
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Looking forward to seeing the outcome of your Chevrolet Orange samples and also the HR Ute. Do you have a paint colour name and/or code for your premier wagon engine. Will be great to get some consensus on the Holden X2 Engine Red and also formulate some true depictions and code mixes in modern paints.
WagonDan Offline
#35 Posted : Thursday, 25 November 2021 8:02:02 PM(UTC)
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Sorry, when I had the paint done for my Premier engine it wasnt given a name or code.


Another few pics (both Wagon bums 😊)
My Premier engine from a different angle (pre power steering install)
Another friends HD Premier X2, repainted engine from his own original sample colour match.


munriman Offline
#36 Posted : Thursday, 25 November 2021 8:19:11 PM(UTC)
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Dr Terry Offline
#37 Posted : Thursday, 25 November 2021 8:27:30 PM(UTC)
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I'm going out on a limb here & reckon that Rocket Red, X2 Engine Red & HK Rocket Red don't really differ all that much !!

Dr Terry

Edited by user Thursday, 25 November 2021 8:28:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
munriman Offline
#38 Posted : Thursday, 25 November 2021 8:57:26 PM(UTC)
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Now that would be something, it will go back to your comment of paints being subjective which I totally agree with.

When it comes to paint names its even more difficult, it may even come down to location or local culture. If we are talking about different Australian plants using different accents in their paints but calling it the same colour than this puzzle will never be solved, a classic example is Chevrolet Orange and Chevrolet Red Orange, how confusing as already stated.

I suppose it would be great to have a consensus of either "this is definitely the right colour for that" or "we dont know what the right colour is for that"

So for example, if you present a car at a car show and you have a presentation board that states my Holden's engine was painted in XYZ colour surely the judges must form an opinion based on some kind of solid evidence?
aKabud Offline
#39 Posted : Friday, 26 November 2021 12:44:11 AM(UTC)
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Will help if we 1st of all see that the paint colour names fit with the cars release or chronological order. I.e Chevs pre HK ( Pontiac & Chev), EH Red, HD X2 Red, HR 186s, HK ??? Red, HK Red / Orange or however it went. Meaning X2 Red came before 186s Red, HK V8 Red / Orange. Well the name on a HD would’nt have been called HK…….VB etc.
Red. This discussion started out about a HK Type 1 327 engine colour. Seems to me that there are too many variables to get any consensus.Too many paint names, shades, manufacturers, individuals experiences with the colours over many many years and no one has said anything about the individuals eye sight past and present. Do you think we could go about this the other way around. Can we have enough of those that historically been judges at any event where engine colour is judged. Have them select from a range of commercially available colours or a particular mix that they, NOW AT THIS TIME, can concur to be the colour. THEN give it a name, in this case, relative to the 1st Type HK GTS 327 engine. i.e The Colour “ Standard 2021 MIX “ And let all the discussion of preceding times be about everyones experiences with all those colours but, now we will have a Standard Colour to be judged on. For example some event like the Monaro Nationals “Standard 2021 Mix” could be mentioned as part of the listing of compliance or classification of each Class. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. or is that something like I’ve read somewhere before.
aKabud.
Smitty2 Offline
#40 Posted : Friday, 26 November 2021 8:02:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WagonDan Go to Quoted Post
I've just checked online and my local Supercheap supposedly has a can of Duplicolor Chevy Orange in stock, which I'll try to pick up in the next day or 2 to get some samples and comparisons done over the weekend.


A good friend of ours also has an original paint X2 engine, in his Melbourne assembled HR Ute 😁


Hopefully I can get some samples against his Ute, along with my Wagon to give abit more assurance one way or the other 👍


This is the detailed engine bay of my Premier Wagon, which I repainted off a sample of an original paint X2 sideplate. Perhaps a different light the pic is taken in, but it's very close to my un-touched Special Wagon's engine.





.. have to say, that is a totally different colour cast of red compared to the red on my HD X2
(which was a bright red, not dull like that)

Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
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