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Brevrmordel Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 18 April 2018 5:18:00 PM(UTC)
Brevrmordel

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I was under the impression that a car that I was given was an HR X2 4speed. I am now questioning this as some things are not adding up. can anyone please help with answers.

The build plate says:

Body: HR225-7846-S
Trim: 510-E57
Paint: 585-9562

the engine number is a 186S so that throws me a bit

The car has the correct twin carbs, on a factory manifold, is running the correct exhaust as well. It has all the X2 badges in the correct places and has the full X2 dash (it all works). It is definitely the Opel 4 speed in the car.

any help, either in deciphering the build plate or information that may lead me to discover if this is a real X2 or a build by someone who liked them, would be greatly appreciated
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 18 April 2018 5:31:14 PM(UTC)
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X2 isn’t a car, it is an engine thus you will not find evidence of what the engine is on the tags, with the exception of a body out of the Dandenong body plant. And HR X2 and 186S share the same engine number prefix, I think it was 186K.
I also don’t think that a 4spd was available with the X2 engine, only 186S and others after 186S production. Dr Terry will know for certain.

Edited by user Wednesday, 18 April 2018 5:33:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Brevrmordel Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 18 April 2018 5:37:34 PM(UTC)
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thanks for the heads up. Hopefully Dr Terry can help.
Mack 1969 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 19 April 2018 11:14:14 PM(UTC)
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Hi, I'm hoping someone can help me to identify what my car actually is.
I am lead to believe that is either a 66 or 67 HR Special with the X2 Option.
Optioned with 3 speed manual.
Engine Number: 186K162660
Body: HR225-4334-S
Trim: 510-E55
Paint: 585-9562
Firewall Plate: S069920

Any help would be greatly appreciated to tell me what I actually have.
Cheers
Dave.
HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, 20 April 2018 6:59:09 AM(UTC)
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The engine number is for an X2 engine (just, as 186S is supposed to start from 186K162700) but you cannot tell from Pagewood build vehicle plates what engine was in the car originally. 3spd manual will be standard for this car, not optioned. You'll need to get Dr Terry to tell you what were the other telltales to pick if a car might have been fitted with an X2 engine originally.

On this, has anyone actually confirmed the breakpoint engine number given by GMH for the X2 to 186S change is correct? Other breakpoints given are not always as correct as you'd hope, like the GTS327 engine change from the Chevrolet to the Canadian 327, the change is a lot earlier than GMH say (although the breakpoint given is vehicle PSN's rather than engine numbers).

Edited by user Friday, 20 April 2018 7:02:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Dr Terry Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, 20 April 2018 12:31:46 PM(UTC)
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Genuine X2 optioned HDs & HRs are often difficult to verify. As HK1837 has said, only Melbourne (Dandenong) cars get the option number for an X2 (or S) optioned car stamped on the build plate.

Firstly I think the 186K162700 changeover number is most likely spot on, as I have verified several vehicles in that narrow engine number range. So 186K162660 was in the very last batch of 186X2 engines built.

Interestingly I've verified 2 examples of HR 186X2 engines with Opel 4-speeds fitted from the factory. Both of these cars were in that same very late X2 engine number batch. This says to me that the Opel 4-speed box was ready to go on the production line a day or 2 before the 186S engine. Somebody must have been in the know to have ordered these, unless they were internal GM-H cars.

There aren't too many clues to identifying X2 & S engines cars. The only clues are that the 3-speed manual versions got a larger diameter (3-inch) tailshaft & also that the ammeter wiring was added in a particular method at the factory. Having said that, since the extra gauges were available as a kit with the factory add-on harness, a neatly fitted dealer job could lead you astray.

As always about the only reliable method of verification would be the existence of original dealer invoices & owner manuals etc.

The car mentioned in the first post sounds interesting. Obviously an HK/T/G engine block has been fitted in later years but an Opel 4-sp in what appears to be an an earlier (1966) HR X2 sounds a bit fishy. I would be checking to see if it has the correct original (blank) steering column & that the floor shift cut-out was done correctly.

Dr Terry.

Edited by user Friday, 20 April 2018 12:37:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Mack 1969 Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, 20 April 2018 1:16:54 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for that info from both of you.
Are you able to explain what all the other codes say about the car?

What does the Body number say about the car?
Does it also coincide with the x2 motor etc?
What does the 4334 in the body stand for?
Paint?
Trim?
Is the car a Special?

What does the tag on the firewall mean?

Sorry for all the questions, but it would be great know for the future.
Cheers
Dave
HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, 20 April 2018 1:54:53 PM(UTC)
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HR225 is just the Series+model code, just means HR Special Sedan. The 4334 signifies it is the 4334th of this model in HR out of the Pagewood (Sydney -S) body plant.

510 is the exterior paint.
E55 is the interior Trim.
585-9562 is the paint manufacturer's code for the refinish material.
S069920 is the PSN, in this case the 69920th vehicle out of the Pagewood Assembly plant since the start of HD (if I remember correctly). This is the cumulative vehicles out of Pagewood, so will include any other stuff they assembled in the timeframe since the sequence started like Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Bedford, Vauxhall or whatever else may have been assembled there.

As I said the X2 engine is a mechanical option, just like disc brakes or an optional transmission thus does not appear on a HR body plate, no different to optioning a V8 in a HK, you have no idea off any of the ID plates what engine or gearbox was fitted to the car on a Pagewood vehicle. The equivalent to this HR is a Pagewood built and assembled HK Kingwood sedan, it could have any engine from a 161L to a 307/5litre and you have no way of knowing off the ID plates - you have to start looking for clues on the body to see what was there originally.

Edited by user Friday, 20 April 2018 1:55:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Error

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Mack 1969 Offline
#9 Posted : Saturday, 21 April 2018 9:04:24 AM(UTC)
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Excellent stuff from both of you.
Sheds some light on the car and gives us confidence about what we have.
Thanks heaps for your help.
Cheers
Dave.
HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, 21 April 2018 9:26:07 AM(UTC)
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I can't help you with 100% certainty on the paint and trim. I'm pretty sure 510 is Grecian White. E55 may be Casbah Red, but not sure if straight vinyl or with an insert. Someone else may be able to confirm.
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Dr Terry Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, 21 April 2018 9:50:48 AM(UTC)
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Yes, 510 is Grecian White (single tone) & E55 is 2-tone Sadlon vinyl trim in Dante & Mephisto Red.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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