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HK1837 Online
#21 Posted : Thursday, 25 July 2019 6:15:40 PM(UTC)
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Panhard rod on HZ? On the diff you mean?
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#22 Posted : Friday, 26 July 2019 6:19:01 AM(UTC)
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No Panhard rod on HZ , maybe you mean it had a rear sway bay . These had brackets welded to the diff case and then the bar attached to the body. I think Gemini would be 1st Holden with a panhard rod? Thanks Mark.
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HK1837 Online
#23 Posted : Friday, 26 July 2019 6:58:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
I think that the TA Torana wins the least changed Holden.

As for the HT Trimatic was that the last month of the 6 cyl or was it the Holden V8's that ran out of the 2sp auto's.
Maybe they sold more 253 autos than they thought they would and had to toss them in.

A HT Brougham with a Trimatic now that would be rare and better than a HG Brougham because they come with high backed bucket seats and rear as well and the HG go back to the HK type of rubbish.
So a HT Brougham with a 3sp auto factory now that would be the rarest of them all, if it's true.

Not to mention that the HK and HT 2sp auto were a slug with that 2.78 diff, a mate had a HK Brougham back in 1978 and confesses that's what he hated about it.


HT Brougham is probably the last place you'd find a Trimatic, although Dr Terry swears he did see one back in the day.

Yes, GMH changed the spec on HK V8 GTS with auto to 3.36 Sals STD and 3.08 Sals ECON. Prior to that I think they had the 2.78 banjo STD and 3.08 banjo as PERF like the other HK's of the same time or something like that. They would have been a bit of a slug. This is how my HK GTS was when it was built, ie 307 auto and banjo, I just don't know if it was 2.78 or 3.08 as it had a 10-bolt 3.08 in it when we got it.
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Dr Terry Offline
#24 Posted : Friday, 26 July 2019 8:04:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post

What RTS in a HX ?


RTS included many upgrades for the HX/HZ Holden, but can be broken down to 2 groups.

1. Geometry
2. Suspension tuning.

The front end geometry was a major change where they went from positive camber, negative castor to negative camber, positive castor. To achieve this the top control arm mounts were moved rearward on the front crossmember. Obviously wheel alignment setting were totally revised. This took place in production in mid-77 during HX production, many months before HZ release.

Suspension tuning included uprated springs & shocks, rear sway bars addd to all models & fronts upgraded, along with tweaks to power steering box valving etc. etc. This all took place at the beginning of HZ production, but most of it is easy bolt on stuff whereas the front geometry is not so easy to retrofit.

So if you have a late HX it could be said to have partial RTS. The exact month of change eludes my memory ATM, but it is well documented so I'll get back with an exact date.

Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Remember that panhard rod in the HZ RTS was a big deal, but the Ford 1965 Galaxie 500 came out with that and it was made in Australia, I can not remember what side the lower bit came down on to the axel, on the Holden's it was on the passenger side due to the exhaust I would think and the Galaxie maybe on the other side due to exhaust coming out the driver side ?


There was no Panhard rod fitted to any HZ by the factory. It wasn't really needed because of the way the rear end was located by the 2 upper control arms mounted at 45 degrees. It is needed however if the upper & lower arms are virtually parallel, as is the case with Gemini, XE onwards Falcons, Commodores & 60s Galaxies & Chevs.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Warren Turnbull Offline
#25 Posted : Friday, 26 July 2019 10:06:42 AM(UTC)
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Mick, could you make a list for VS, this would be quite large also as it spans into VT, and many "specials" introduced, around 9 I think.

Warren
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#26 Posted : Friday, 26 July 2019 3:25:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post

What RTS in a HX ?


RTS included many upgrades for the HX/HZ Holden, but can be broken down to 2 groups.

1. Geometry
2. Suspension tuning.

The front end geometry was a major change where they went from positive camber, negative castor to negative camber, positive castor. To achieve this the top control arm mounts were moved rearward on the front crossmember. Obviously wheel alignment setting were totally revised. This took place in production in mid-77 during HX production, many months before HZ release.

Suspension tuning included uprated springs & shocks, rear sway bars addd to all models & fronts upgraded, along with tweaks to power steering box valving etc. etc. This all took place at the beginning of HZ production, but most of it is easy bolt on stuff whereas the front geometry is not so easy to retrofit.

So if you have a late HX it could be said to have partial RTS. The exact month of change eludes my memory ATM, but it is well documented so I'll get back with an exact date.

Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Remember that panhard rod in the HZ RTS was a big deal, but the Ford 1965 Galaxie 500 came out with that and it was made in Australia, I can not remember what side the lower bit came down on to the axel, on the Holden's it was on the passenger side due to the exhaust I would think and the Galaxie maybe on the other side due to exhaust coming out the driver side ?


There was no Panhard rod fitted to any HZ by the factory. It wasn't really needed because of the way the rear end was located by the 2 upper control arms mounted at 45 degrees. It is needed however if the upper & lower arms are virtually parallel, as is the case with Gemini, XE onwards Falcons, Commodores & 60s Galaxies & Chevs.

Dr Terry
Do the WB Statesman have the panhard rod.

Dr Terry Offline
#27 Posted : Friday, 26 July 2019 4:47:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Do the WB Statesman have the pan hard rod.


No, WB Statesman had the same rear suspension as HZ, 4 links & a sway bar.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Dr Terry Offline
#28 Posted : Friday, 26 July 2019 4:49:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
Mick, could you make a list for VS, this would be quite large also as it spans into VT, and many "specials" introduced, around 9 I think.

Warren


If we are talking all model series, including late Commodores, VE would win hands down.

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#29 Posted : Saturday, 27 July 2019 4:25:02 PM(UTC)
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Winners are TA for least and VE for most.
HK1837 Online
#30 Posted : Sunday, 28 July 2019 12:17:01 PM(UTC)
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Cool. I purposely didn’t include stuff past VK as VK to VL transition is where I see the change to modern from the middle era primarily as the carb to EFI change (old to middle era change maybe HG to HQ?). But very good to include VE as this covers all Holden from start to finish.
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#31 Posted : Sunday, 28 July 2019 4:04:07 PM(UTC)
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Regarding VE changes, here is an extract from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VE)

MY08: models came in April 2007. The horizontal wood grain key line across the dash on the Berlina was replaced by a matte silver insert. Also, the recessed buttons on the Omega key fob were now raised and made of a more durable plastic. This did not affect the remaining variants, fitted with the "flip-out" key fob from launch.

MY08.5: changes from August 2007 coincided with launch of the VE Ute.

MY09: models were launched on 15 March 2008. Six airbags were made standard across the range—Omega and SV6 variants were previously fitted with two and four airbags respectively. Omega models also received standard fitment of air conditioning, 16-inch alloy wheels, body colour wing mirrors and door handles, and a new grille insert with chrome highlights. Revised alloy wheel designs were featured on the Calais (seven-spoke) and Calais V (10-spoke).

MY09.5: upgrades affected models ordered from 21 October 2008 and produced from November. Instrument cluster illumination was commonised to white. The turn-by-turn navigation and Berlina V8 options were removed. Engine wise, the "premium" version of the Alloytec V6 was now fitted to the Omega and Berlina, bringing improved fuel consumption and a slight reduction in engine output (see above). A range of safety upgrades were also introduced. Further MY09.5 changes were introduced in March 2009. The space-saver spare wheel were discontinued and replaced by two no-cost options: either a lightweight tyre inflator kit or a full-size spare wheel (previously an extra cost). Sportwagon variants of the Calais V and SS V receive an alloy spare wheel if the full-size spare is chosen, while the remainder of the line-up receives a steel wheel spare. March also signalled an opportunity for Holden to replace the dark-grey horizontal dashboard strip and steering wheel spokes as used on the SV6, SS and SS V to a matte silver type.[119] The safety improvements made to the Omega sedan from October production onwards were also introduced for the Omega Sportwagon (see above), and the "V-Series" insignia used on SS V and Calais V models was removed, replaced by a single "SS V" or "Calais V" badge.

MY10: versions of the VE were released in September 2009. New 3.0-litre and 3.6-litre V6s have been introduced, featuring Spark Ignition Direct Injection (SIDI) and coupled to a new six-speed automatic transmission. These revised powertrains are marketed as part of Holden's EcoLine range. Visually, all SIDI versions are distinguished by relocated and additional EcoLine badging.[115] 3.0-litre versions now utilise twin exhaust outlets. Updated cars also gain a recalibrated suspension setup and an extra ball-joint in the rear suspension (previously introduced on the Sportwagon); the result is increased tautness and improved handling in models fitted with 18 and 19-inch diameter wheels. These cars are also equipped with a larger 24-millimetre (0.9 in) rear stabiliser bar. Additional engine bay sound deadening and a new muffler have resulted in reduced noise, vibration, and harshness. Elsewhere, the fitment of lighter low rolling-resistance tyres aids fuel consumption by minimising friction. The MY10 model year also saw the introduction of the Tremec TR-6060 6-speed manual transmission and higher specification clutch for all V8 models.

Series II

MY11: revisions to the styling identify this update, marketed by Holden as the "Series II". Announced on 31 August 2010, and launched on 10 September, MY11 heralded styling changes across the range by way of new front fascias, the addition of aerodynamic lip detailing to the decklids of sedans, and new alloy wheel designs on the Berlina specification and higher.[126] Front-end changes comprise partially reshaped headlamps, redesigned bumpers, and an enlarged grille with restyled inserts that differ throughout the model range. Inside, the ineriors receive a redesigned centre console stack incorporating a new 6.5-inch touchscreen, new dashboard, rearranged controls, reconfigured ventilation outlets, and updates to trimmings and illumination colours. SV6, SS and SS V interiors are differentiated via the application of circular air vents. Standard on all models is the 6.5-inch infotainment system developed primarily by Siemens VDO. Dubbed "Holden-iQ", this integrates media playback and control functions. The iQ head unit replaces the previous mechanical CD stacker with a single slot and built in storage for approximately 15 CDs worth of music (internal storage optional on the Omega).[70] The system also features full iPod integration, USB and auxiliary input, and incorporates Bluetooth handsfree telephone compatibility and music streaming. On V-Series specifications, iQ incorporates satellite navigation with live traffic updates, speed zone alerts and traffic camera notification. Sedans and wagons specified with navigation also receive a reversing camera.
In terms of powertrain, the MY11 brought flex-fuel capability for the 3.0-litre V6 and 6.0-litre V8, allowing them to run on E85 bio-ethanol. With the MY11 update, Holden also introduced a new "Redline" sports package as an option on V-Series models. The package includes lightweight, forged and polished 19-inch multi-spoke alloy wheels from the Pontiac G8 GXP. Other Redline additions encompass four-piston Brembo high-performance brakes, stiffer "FE3" suspension and chromed window surrounds for sedans, and the fitment of the tyre inflater kit on the Redline Ute.

MY12: Holden commenced production of the MY12 update Commodore on 6 September 2011. This followed Holden's 2 September announcement that mechanical changes would be limited to efficiency improvements and the implementation of E85 compatibility for the 3.6-litre SIDI V6. As part of the cosmetic update, the Omega gains new seven-spoke 16-inch alloy wheels and chrome highlights for the lower outboard fascia inserts, while the Berlina receives new chrome highlighted foglight surrounds. The Calais V adds a new boot lip spoiler, which will be available as an accessory for other MY12 sedans. SV6 and SS models score a new chrome-highlighted lower airdam and front grille surround, with V-Series versions of the SS acquiring additional chrome-accented lower outboard inserts. Redline editions of the SS V gain redesigned 19-inch wheels, red painted brake calipers, and the fitment of "FE3" suspension is extended to the Sportwagon and Ute variants.

There are also an MY12.5 update too, however I'm yet to find more information.
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#32 Posted : Tuesday, 30 July 2019 9:01:41 PM(UTC)
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There are so many running changes on VE, that even 2 cars only a few months apart can be significantly different.

I was showing Warren my Calais V, and comparing it to his later model one, and noting several obvious things - like how they dropped the flip-out pockets on the door trims, and lost the additional suede on the doors.
The full cover across the front of the engine bay disappeared some time in 2007. They added the lip spoiler to the boot on the CalaisV prior to series II as well.

That's just the obvious ones in a small period, not aligned to an MY or series 2 update, and on one trim level.
There's many more revisions that occurred like that over time - some aligning with those model changes, others during production runs.

But when I think about it, the number of actual *running* changes to VE (not aligned to series 2 or MY updates) probably aren't as many as the VL, which was only 1 production run, with no MY or series break points where updates were made.
Cheers,

Mick
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#33 Posted : Wednesday, 31 July 2019 9:05:41 PM(UTC)
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I must admit the above VE changes seem similar to Holden Media reports; simple advertising to keep the public interested.

I actual have a list of changes break points made during VN and VP production. An example is the revised V6 'Announced' at VP Series II production, according to production breakpoints it was added as a running change several months prior to the Series II.
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#34 Posted : Wednesday, 31 July 2019 10:59:33 PM(UTC)
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There is a "pre series 2, series 2 update" in VP covering about 5000 cars from roughly L595000 to L600000 where the series 2 update (A9A) became official.
Some things that were specific to series 2 were fitted - one such example is a run of strut sheets where they list L595*** to L599999 numbers as "pre-upgrade" but the code is added for the 15" steel wheels on Exec (which was a series 2 change), indicating that perhaps they ran short of parts that were being obsoleted with the series 2 update (or someone thought it would be a good idea to start series 2 smack on L600000 and they weren't quite there yet).
Cheers,

Mick
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HK1837 Online
#35 Posted : Thursday, 1 August 2019 6:48:57 AM(UTC)
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That is pretty much the norm for listed updates against PSN Mick. GMH regularly did this, one example is 2nd type 327 in HK. The actual 2nd type engine happened a lot earlier than the 4 x listed PSN breakpoints, but the breakpoints represent when all associated changes happened like radiator, shroud, alternator bracket etc. Prior to that things were bodged up to fit.
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