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8D11PCH2 Offline
#21 Posted : Thursday, 26 September 2019 7:21:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Chassis number definitely is wrong Warren, a look at the windscreen vents might give up the body origins. It does look good and it has lots of good bits on it, but how many mistakes can someone make on the tags before it looks deliberate! I hope someone isn't conned into spending near $400k for a car worth maybe 15-20% of that.

It is a shame they haven't put Harry's little "up yours Ford" stickers on the rear bar, not in those words of course.


Agree, chassis number stamped in firewall was not stamped in a GMH VAP, however, it should match the number recorded in the CAMS logbook that comes with the car.

Quote: For the past 50 years it has changed ownership 5 times which is documented in the CAMS log book being sold with the vehicle.
HK1837 Offline
#22 Posted : Thursday, 26 September 2019 7:32:42 PM(UTC)
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No HK-HG chassis numbers were stamped in a VAP, they were all done in a BAP. I could stamp that number into any firewall and it would match the same log book.
I’m pretty sure all four of the HDT Monaros were Dandenong bodies originally anyway.

Edit - one digit of the chassis number (the last one under the 2nd last) on lots of HK-HG went on in the VAP.

Edited by user Thursday, 26 September 2019 7:54:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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8D11PCH2 Offline
#23 Posted : Thursday, 26 September 2019 9:15:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
No HK-HG chassis numbers were stamped in a VAP, they were all done in a BAP. I could stamp that number into any firewall and it would match the same log book.
I’m pretty sure all four of the HDT Monaros were Dandenong bodies originally anyway.

Edit - one digit of the chassis number (the last one under the 2nd last) on lots of HK-HG went on in the VAP.


Apologies, I used VAP as a general reference to incorporate all facets of the vehicle construction process from start to finish.

Yes, anyone could stamp a chassis number that matches a CAMS log book into any body shell and that will be exactly what has been done with this Monaro.




HK1837 Offline
#24 Posted : Thursday, 26 September 2019 9:42:52 PM(UTC)
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It must have been rebodied after leaving HDT though to get the Elizabeth chassis number in the CAMS logbook. The original four HDT cars would have had Dandenong chassis numbers, but Bathurst 1969 being an ARDC event may mean no CAMS logbooks? From memory only one of the cars raced prior to Bathurst where it crashed at Sandown. HDT had the four original Tonawanda engines plus the 3-4 Flint engines supplied from GM. Not sure if anyone knows which of the 7-8 engines left HDT in what cars. Pretty sure it is documented when the cars were registered what the original engines were with the chassis numbers, but not known for certain which car is what to 100% accuracy. Harry Firth muddied it all very effectively. - he’s probably looking down and laughing still!
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Warren Turnbull Offline
#25 Posted : Thursday, 26 September 2019 10:01:37 PM(UTC)
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Its obvious the car was smashed at some stage and rebodied without he tags being transferred as no one would have on a race car.

Probably happened during a rally as these cars were used extensively. Lets not forget Loyd Robinson ended up with one of them and this car is not resting in peace at Willawong tip. He rallied that car extensively as well.

The worst thing is this car has had poor replica plates fitted and now is worthless, even if it was the Brock car rebodied and still rallied by Brock.
HK1837 Offline
#26 Posted : Friday, 27 September 2019 6:11:13 AM(UTC)
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Pretty sure Ben has the chassis number that was on the car when it went to the Parretts, will see what it was eventually. Even though they thought they were getting the Des West car I don’t think they did.
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Warren Turnbull Offline
#27 Posted : Friday, 27 September 2019 6:54:06 AM(UTC)
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As one of these cars still survives, the one that was compared to the A9X, KNK777, it would not be hard to use the Victorian historic services to find the other cars around it.

Interestingly the Body Number of KNK777 is 013686M.

I would not be surprised if the Brock car is Body Number 013563M and this number may have been given to someone from Harry's records, obviously the person building the car all those years ago did not know enough to check all other numbers.

Really when you think about today, if you had that number, and the details of KNK777 it would not be too hard to get this car almost right.

Vic roads report give you chassis number and engine number.
HK1837 Offline
#28 Posted : Friday, 27 September 2019 7:37:59 AM(UTC)
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From memory Warren the paper records were removed years ago from what the AOMC has now, by removed I mean to cover up what Harry was doing (cunning old bugger). I think the original rego papers were within Vic roads though.
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Premier 350 Offline
#29 Posted : Monday, 30 September 2019 6:51:10 AM(UTC)
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I'd like to thank all the contributors to this thread. It's been fascinating reading.

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Attn camry drivers. The accelerator is the skinny pedal on the right.
8D11PCH2 Offline
#30 Posted : Tuesday, 8 October 2019 7:42:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
It must have been rebodied after leaving HDT though to get the Elizabeth chassis number in the CAMS logbook. The original four HDT cars would have had Dandenong chassis numbers, but Bathurst 1969 being an ARDC event may mean no CAMS logbooks? From memory only one of the cars raced prior to Bathurst where it crashed at Sandown. HDT had the four original Tonawanda engines plus the 3-4 Flint engines supplied from GM. Not sure if anyone knows which of the 7-8 engines left HDT in what cars. Pretty sure it is documented when the cars were registered what the original engines were with the chassis numbers, but not known for certain which car is what to 100% accuracy. Harry Firth muddied it all very effectively. - he’s probably looking down and laughing still!


Do the ARDC's Supplementary Regulations for the Hardie Ferodo 500 stipulate acceptance of vehicles without a current CAMS Logbook?

Edited by user Tuesday, 8 October 2019 7:47:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#31 Posted : Tuesday, 8 October 2019 9:46:40 AM(UTC)
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Afaik they didn't need one.
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8D11PCH2 Offline
#32 Posted : Tuesday, 8 October 2019 8:58:21 PM(UTC)
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Thinking about it, it would make sense for CAMS to waive the Log Book requirement for the HF500 to allow the inclusion of the international entries.



Monaro23D Offline
#33 Posted : Thursday, 10 October 2019 5:50:40 AM(UTC)
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A CAMS log book for Monaro 23D was issued to Sutton Motors on 18 November 1968, weeks after its appearance at Bathurst but before its next appearance at Warwick Farm on 1 December 1968.
Clearly no log book was required only proof that 200 identical cars had been produced and registered which was difficult enough for GMH at the time.
Monaro HK 327 GTS
HK1837 Offline
#34 Posted : Thursday, 10 October 2019 8:23:12 AM(UTC)
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^^It wasn’t just difficult, it was impossible. GMH hadn’t built 200 identical cars as some had 3.08 rear axle, some had 3.36, some had fixed back buckets, some reclining. This is why so many GTS327 were made as GMH had to add lots more to the schedule simply to be able to run in 1968, which were quickly “sold” off the schedule by dealers. The flow on effect meant lots more imported drivelines needed, which also meant the debacle of mods for the 1969 engine required. Plus adding 100’s of extra GTS327s displaced production allocation for other cars (cancelling them from HK build), a large reason why there were lots of 307 and Powerglide remaining at the end of HK that caused the delayed mainstream introduction of 308 in HT.

23D is a Dandenong build isn’t it?
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Monaro23D Offline
#35 Posted : Thursday, 10 October 2019 6:07:34 PM(UTC)
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Peter Lewis Williams was involved in conjuring up the required 200 "identical" cars. My understanding is that the cars had to be registered rather than simply produced.
Perhaps this is incorrect?
Yes, 23D is a Melbourne car.
To bring things somewhat back on track, what became of the 350 which Laurie Nelson acquired from HDT?
Monaro HK 327 GTS
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