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BEEVEE Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, 13 October 2019 9:49:07 AM(UTC)
BEEVEE

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Hi Guys

I was always believing ALL Clevo & Windsor engines came from USA or Canada, but was recently

advised that we CAST one or both marques here in OZ ........... does anyone have thoughts

or proof of this or otherwise ?

cheers

Edited by user Sunday, 13 October 2019 9:50:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Sunday, 13 October 2019 10:08:45 AM(UTC)
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Ford canned the 351 Cleveland as we know it in the USA around 1972. Ford Australia imported a quantity of castings and assembled them here until they began casting their own. From memory at one stage they were using US blocks and Australian cast heads. I think Ford USA continued with a truck 400 Cleveland (tall deck), and it was also later made as a 351 but it was a different engine.

Bit of info here if you want to go reading:

https://www.diyford.com/...ck-identification-guide/

Edited by user Sunday, 13 October 2019 10:12:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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BEEVEE on 13/10/2019(UTC)
castellan Offline
#3 Posted : Sunday, 13 October 2019 5:20:39 PM(UTC)
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All Windsor were imported to Aus.

Cleveland engines are truly called 335 series and in Sep 1969 to 1974 USA Cars the last 4V were in 1974 Mercury Cougar.

The first Australian Cleveland cast blocks here was in Dec 1975 as they made 200 all up XE192540 NASCAR blocks Dec 1975 and Jan 1976 but could not machine ours up truly hear until about mid 1976 and all them XE192540 were sent to the USA.

So we got all of Cleveland blocks imported to Australia that lasted all the way up until 1976 and this lot have CF (Cleveland Foundry) cast on them and the Aussie cast ones have GF (Geelong Foundry) and then in about 1980 we made what's called a pillow block Cleveland and in March 1982 we made what's called a XE192540 NASCAR Pillow block Cleveland and all 500 of them were sent to the USA, but some were sent back here due to not passing the standards for a race engine due to core shift.

Australia cast the 302 Clevelend heads here from Sep 1971 and the rods and crank.
The First Aussie 302 was produced on 12/11/1971.
The USA never made a 302 Cleveland.

All 4V Cleveland's in our XW-XY-XA GT were fully imported, they are called 4V as they have big port heads.

The first 351 2V heads cast in Australia that I know of was about July 1973 and were in XA GT auto's and the start of the LTD, the XA GT T Bar auto first had 4V engines and then such got the 2V with Automatic.

Maybe all Falcon XC V8's are Aussie Cast blocks.
The Last 5.8L engine sold by Ford Australia was in 1986 F100's.


The only reason why Ford Australia made a 302 Cleveland was because of the bean counters, we got one block to use and had to make do with that, but the USA had the Windsor that was especially made for 302cid and the Cleveland we got was especially made to be a 351 and never was going to be made into a 302, but we did that because to cast both types the bean counters could not justify such a all. as it cost a hell of a lot of money to be able to set up and start casting blocks. Australia tried to Cast the V6 Alloytec and failed I think it cost $120 million down the drain so we only imported all of the V6 Alloytec blocks, but we did cast heads cranks and rods ect and button them up.

Blocks are high tec stuff and there is a rate of 3% castings that are scraped in Cleveland blocks before they even get assembled.
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BEEVEE on 13/10/2019(UTC), Paul351xb on 25/10/2019(UTC)
BEEVEE Offline
#4 Posted : Sunday, 13 October 2019 5:31:08 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Castellan .......... very informative & helpfulApplause
wbute Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, 14 October 2019 8:17:29 AM(UTC)
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How can the Australian built engines be called a Cleveland block? Surely they should be named after the place they were cast? Cleveland and Windsor are both the cities the blocks were made in after all.
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, 14 October 2019 9:13:01 AM(UTC)
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People call the 307 in HK-HT and the last few hundred 327 in HK a Chevrolet engine. None of these were made in a Chevrolet engine plant or even in the United States and were not painted in Chevrolet engine colour plus no Chevrolet script on the rocker covers. So I guess it is the same phenomenon. I call these SBC design engines, so I guess the correct term in that case might be Cleveland design engines. At least they were made by Ford. The HK engines were made by McKinnon Industries, and the engines they built went into Pontiac, Studebaker, Holden, Chevrolet and Ramsay Marine just to name a few.
I guess in the Australian Cleveland case it is no different to the Chevrolet mechanical components made in South Africa and used in CKD vehicles supplied out of Australia.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
castellan Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 15 October 2019 12:59:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
How can the Australian built engines be called a Cleveland block? Surely they should be named after the place they were cast? Cleveland and Windsor are both the cities the blocks were made in after all.


The V8 Cleveland's are just a nick name, but Ford calls them the 335 series. the 400ci were cast in 3 different places CF, DIF, MCC and the 351M in 2 places DIF very early ones and MCC and the 351C in 2 places CF, GF and the 302C in one place GF.

The 351M and 400 have taller a deck height and bigger mains diameter. the 400 came in 1971 and the 351M 1975.

The old 289 and 302 Windsor were cast in 2 places, Windsor and Mexico.

Dr Terry Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, 16 October 2019 6:31:25 AM(UTC)
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Excuse my ignorance castellan, but what do those place name abbreviations translate to ? I'm not familiar with CF, GF MCC etc.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 16 October 2019 6:39:07 AM(UTC)
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From memory Cleveland Foundry, Geelong Foundry for two of them Terry. Old memory though.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Dr Terry Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, 16 October 2019 6:42:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
From memory Cleveland Foundry, Geelong Foundry for two of them Terry. Old memory though.


Yeah, I guessed at those. But what about MCC & DIF ?

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, 16 October 2019 7:25:57 AM(UTC)
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I just read that link above better and it confirms CF and GF but doesn't mention the other two.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
castellan Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:05:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
From memory Cleveland Foundry, Geelong Foundry for two of them Terry. Old memory though.


Yeah, I guessed at those. But what about MCC & DIF ?

Dr Terry


MCC Michigan Casting Centre

DIF Dearborn Industry Foundry.
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