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HK1837 Offline
#21 Posted : Wednesday, 18 December 2019 11:29:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I meant to add, while it would be nice to have had this stuff in Australia we didn’t have the fuel for it. It would have been nice to get ‘66 to ‘68 Impalas here with L72 engines, but we didn’t have the fuel or the roads for them. An L72 427 was only rated at 425hp (which was a joke as the L78 396 with same heads, same 11:1 compression and same solid cam was rated at 425hp). An 11:1 solid cam 427 would have struggled badly on Aussie 1965-6 fuel. I remember reading about a stock L72 Impala with factory 2.75 rear end pulling near 170mph - we certainly didn’t have the roads for that! I reckon Ford pretty much got it right with the 351 Windsor in the late 60’s Fairlane. GMH could have given us a lower compression 396 like the L35 which was 325hp and 10.25:1, or the 390hp L36 427 with 10.25:1. But if they had wanted a more powerful engine for the ‘67-‘68 Impala/Parisienne than the 240hp (‘67) or 250hp (‘68) 327 they could have simply fitted the 275hp L30 327 in either year. Same engine but with fuelie heads. Would have still been Powerglide though, the TH350 didn’t appear until 1969 in Chevrolet driveline (which includes the Parisienne). Only big block Chevrolet got the 3spd TH400 between 1965-1968.


What I have seen of all the Muscle cars in the USA is that they all seem to have real stupid low ratio diffs with big block V8's.
I don't think that they had tyres for 170mph let alone the drum brakes, no wonder so many got killed back then in such cars.

I was looking into what cars I would of liked to own back in the days in USA, so at least to get a guide line on the reality of such years as to what was truly what, I was sadly disappointed, the gear box combinations were crap be the auto or manual and diff ratios to high or to low.

The USA cars that I thought was the ants pants were not what I would of truly would of wanted.

So lets say you went back in time and what was new at the time, I have no regard to idolise GM or Chrysler or Ford etc, as certain cars cut it with me or they don't. they don't have to be the quickest as I will give merit as to what the car is, be it station wagon or ute, Datsun 1600 you name it, They have something or they don't.

Best looking or classy Australian made car in 1964 Pontiac 4 door Hardtop I believe, next could be the compact Fairlane with the big 260 V8.

When looking at the history of cars progression, one can see with the thought process that leads to the next models, look at the long tail end on the 1964-5 Pontiac and Impala and you can see why the HK-T-G Brougham long rear end came into being, I don't think that a longer wheel base HK-T-G would of cut it and they banked on the long tail end to add it class. but Ford got it right with the ZA Fairlane on and then it came to that the ZF Fairlane could be had with more luxury than the Last 1972 Galaxie. and the Last of our Pontiac and Impala could not cut it with the HT Brougham, not to mention with price that the numbers just don't stack up.


The 1968 GMH Parisienne and Impala were a full size cars, far bigger than a smaller HT Brougham. Same gearbox though ie 2spd Powerglide, although HT Brougham Powerglide had the 6cyl internals. The 327 was a 250hp engine, same as GTS327 with a 3.55 rear axle and 8.15 x 15" tyres (similar to 14" tyres with 3.25-3.30 rear axle). The HT Brougham got that first gen 227hp 308 and a 2.78 rear axle. Thus the 250hp Impala or Parisienne although a bit heavier would have out accelerated the HT Brougham by a considerable margin too. The GM cars had big 4 wheel power assisted drums though, whereas the Brougham had front discs.

Here are the wheelbase and tracks:

119" wheelbase, 63.5" front track, 63.4" (Parisienne), 64.5" (Impala) rear track. 4095lb Parisienne, 3906lb Impala sedan, 3991lb Impala sports sedan.
111" wheelbase, 58.12" track front and rear (HT Brougham). 3221lb.

Edited by user Wednesday, 18 December 2019 4:23:04 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Rear axle ratio added for big girls plus dimensions

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Dr Terry Offline
#22 Posted : Wednesday, 18 December 2019 12:10:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
the Last of our Pontiac and Impala could not cut it with the HT Brougham, not to mention with price that the numbers just don't stack up.


The 1968 Pontiacs & Chevs were around $6,500 to $6,900, depending on the model variant, whereas the Brougham was $3,795 (HK) & $3,988 (HT).

They were not really direct competitors. The US cars were much larger, had leather upholstery & radio etc. standard. Brougham didn't have any of that.

Ford realised that with the Fairlane, which is why they kept the Galaxie going until 1972/73.

The first "proper" replacements for the US cars didn't come until 1973/74 with the intro of the Aussie P5 LTD & the HJ Caprice.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Wednesday, 18 December 2019 12:11:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

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HK1837 Offline
#23 Posted : Wednesday, 18 December 2019 4:34:05 PM(UTC)
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Terry, the 1968 Press release for the Parisienne (4/4/68) and Impala (9/4/68) shows them both with Nylon cloth and Morrokide trim. Tax inc. prices list as below. There is only the Parisienne sports sedan, no sedan listed:

Parisienne sports sedan - $6920.
Impala sport sedan - $6680.
Impala thin pillar sedan - $6590.

Terry is spot on with 11 transistor push button radio. Plus tinted front screen, collapsible column, power steering plus optional A/C, electric clock and the Pontiac lists with the driver's mirror adjustable from inside.
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castellan Offline
#24 Posted : Wednesday, 18 December 2019 8:02:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
the Last of our Pontiac and Impala could not cut it with the HT Brougham, not to mention with price that the numbers just don't stack up.


The 1968 Pontiacs & Chevs were around $6,500 to $6,900, depending on the model variant, whereas the Brougham was $3,795 (HK) & $3,988 (HT).

They were not really direct competitors. The US cars were much larger, had leather upholstery & radio etc. standard. Brougham didn't have any of that.

Ford realised that with the Fairlane, which is why they kept the Galaxie going until 1972/73.

The first "proper" replacements for the US cars didn't come until 1973/74 with the intro of the Aussie P5 LTD & the HJ Caprice.

Dr Terry


I would look at it like this with Holden from 1963 on we got the EJ Holden Premier, ok Holden just made a car of luxury class and we did have the Pontiac and Impala, but the premier was something in the way for luxury such a one to go for without going to the big yank tank. not everyone need such a big car like that and then we came to the HK Brougham later in the run 8/1968 and this was Holden's answer for the Flagship GMH.
Look inside a Brougham and the big yank tank I can't say they are cut above and I can't see the value in the yank cars over a Brougham and I think no one would complain about the interior room and the seats are better in the Brougham any day and sure I like the GMH Yank tanks as well.

My Dad had a 1971 model Galaxie and mum never drove it ever, as it was just to big.

In fact sit in the back of a HK-T-G Premier or Brougham it's better than a HQ Statesman, less leg room but I don't remember complaining at all and I am only 6ft 2.

I don't think that the ZA-B-C-D rear sears were as comfortable as the HK-T-G Premier or Brougham, not to mention the Brougham had power windows option, Fairlaine only got that option in the ZF, even the last of our Galaxie and Dodge never got that.

The Fairlane rear seat was better than the Falcon, but it's the bottom of the seat part that Holden was more comfortable, the ZF-G were better, but the ZH rear seat is the best of any Fairlane ever, the ZJ was just shit.

The main reason why I would by a big car is for the rear seats comfort.

I looked at Holden Statesman and Aussie LTD as not in the class as the Yank tanks because they were like F100 wide you could put 4 people across in them, not to mention the boot were huge.
Dr Terry Offline
#25 Posted : Thursday, 19 December 2019 6:56:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Terry, the 1968 Press release for the Parisienne (4/4/68) and Impala (9/4/68) shows them both with Nylon cloth and Morrokide trim. Tax inc. prices list as below. There is only the Parisienne sports sedan, no sedan listed:

Parisienne sports sedan - $6920.
Impala sport sedan - $6680.
Impala thin pillar sedan - $6590.

Terry is spot on with 11 transistor push button radio. Plus tinted front screen, collapsible column, power steering plus optional A/C, electric clock and the Pontiac lists with the driver's mirror adjustable from inside.


Yes,my error. The earlier Chevs & Pontiacs, up to around 1964/65 had full leather, but they changed to Morrokide vinyl & cloth after that.

I guess that was the thinking of the time, because the Premier did the same thing. EJ & EH has full leather & they changed to Morrokide for the HD series.

Dr Terry
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HK1837 Offline
#26 Posted : Thursday, 19 December 2019 7:48:41 AM(UTC)
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I was with you as my '57 had leather. But I remember spotting a mint original '68 Impala at a workshop about 2 years ago and stopped to get a host of photos off it. It still had its original trim in it which when I remembered checked the Press release. This car still had everything I could see as original, engine, carb, radiator etc. From memory the headlining was the same material as HR.
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Dr Terry Offline
#27 Posted : Thursday, 19 December 2019 9:23:06 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I was with you as my '57 had leather. But I remember spotting a mint original '68 Impala at a workshop about 2 years ago and stopped to get a host of photos off it. It still had its original trim in it which when I remembered checked the Press release. This car still had everything I could see as original, engine, carb, radiator etc. From memory the headlining was the same material as HR.


Yeah, GM-H used a lot of Aussie trim materials & paint etc on the Chevs & Pontiacs.

The Morrokide & Castillon Weave nylon is the same as HK Premier, the headlining vinyl was the same as EH-HT (Golfball) pattern.

The paint is all Dulux/Dulon & they use Holden trim combination numbers as well.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Thursday, 19 December 2019 9:23:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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morsesworld Offline
#28 Posted : Monday, 30 December 2019 7:16:32 PM(UTC)
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On a Casual note,

I've seen a lot of Golf Ball vinyl trim & of course Holden Sixes, diffs etc. used by Bolwell for their Nagari's etc back in the 60's & 70's.

Cheers.
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