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starks Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 10 February 2015 8:19:13 AM(UTC)
starks

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I bought an air conditioning unit recently for my HZ ute that I was told was factory fitted to a hz as an aircon pack (an add on to just a heater/blower system). I was thinking dealer fitted but after a few posts on the Aussie V8 Forum thinking it may be simply an aftermarket item.
The unit itself is made in Melbourne and replaces the left hand air duct under the dash that feeds air to the blower fan. The kit uses old style HK T G compressor bracket and pulley (308) but with a sanden compressor. It says on the side of the unit Air International Melb, registered design RD70897

Once installed it creates an integrated air conditioning system by cooling the air before its pulled through the blower fan. There is a vent that opens and closes for recirculate also. Just trying to find out the history behind it is all.
I found the exact same unit on a hx on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com.au/i...Cars&hash=item4633e25f60



The engine it came off

Edited by user Tuesday, 10 February 2015 9:07:37 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Dr Terry Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 10 February 2015 5:56:25 PM(UTC)
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The system you have there was made by Air International & sold thru GM P & A as the Holden accessory air conditioning system. i.e. Genuine, but not factory-fitted genuine.

The Frigidaire system, as installed at the factory (with the large black GM A6 compressor) could not be fitted after the car left the factory, so the next available was this dealer-fitted integrated system.

I've fitted several of these, but they're not as good as either the Frigidaire system or an underdash unit.

On several occasions I've removed these at customer's request & fitted a good underdash unit, utilising all of the underbonnet hardware.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Tour Director Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 10 February 2015 6:04:23 PM(UTC)
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Air International sold out to Futuris some years ago. Futuris are still in operation in Melbourne and next door to GMH head office. They still do HVAC (heating, ventilation, air, cooling)and may be able to help you.
starks Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 10 February 2015 6:44:29 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the replys! Is it effecient enough for my ute cab? Or am i really better off looking at vintage air or is there something else ? I want the system integrated as Im a little fussy on appearance i.e I dont want to see a large rectangle air con unit at the base of my dash.
I dont like the bracket on top of the engine not to mention it causes the compressor to fowl on my rocker covers so i bought a side mount engine bracket and Ill mod the compressor brackets to suit. I do like however the lines are much neater in the engine bay than the full system.
Dr Terry Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 10 February 2015 7:09:49 PM(UTC)
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It'll be fine for a ute cab. If you want integrated it's probably your only only option.

I can't understand why the compressor fouls standard rocker covers.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
starks Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 10 February 2015 8:27:20 PM(UTC)
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The engine in the photo is the car the aircon came off. Im running tall aftermarket rocker covers. Honestly I dont think much of them. They dont leak but a thin sliver of oil gets pushed past the pcv valve as the plates on the inside are too short. I really need to chase a set of standards. The engine had aftermarkets covers on it when I bought it so thats what stayed with it. I wssnt too concerned initially as I wanted the clearance for aftermarket rockers but I know atleast the crane golds fit under the standard covers so im guessing others will as well.
starks Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 12:37:26 AM(UTC)
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Where would I get a basic wiring diagram for the unit and compressor?
crowe Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 5:54:55 AM(UTC)
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I've fitted one of these to a hz sdn. Currently have this in my sandman van. Yes it will be ok in a ute. I have all the instructions to do this. Can e-mail them to you. But you will need all the motor brackets and crank pully.
Cocko750 Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 6:18:07 AM(UTC)
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Hey Crowe can you drop an email to me also if you have the fitting and/or wiring diagrams please
Cocko750at hotmail dot com
Thanks in advance , Anthony
wbute Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 6:23:09 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
It'll be fine for a ute cab. If you want integrated it's probably your only only option.

I can't understand why the compressor fouls standard rocker covers.

Dr Terry

Why? You can fit the factory integrated. I put it in my WB ute.
wbute Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 6:24:22 AM(UTC)
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More to the point, a dealer could have fitted it as well. They just were givenan easier option.
starks Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 6:30:49 AM(UTC)
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Hey thanks crowe sounds fantastic. Starks_6@hotmail.com.
I bought it as a complete kit removed from a hz sl wagon as the guy was putting a worked motor in and didnt wantbthe aircon on there. So got engine bracket, im already running a triple pulley got compressor which was recod, condensor, dryer, all lines. So all there, Just didnt know how to wire it so thank you.
johnperth Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 6:45:10 AM(UTC)
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it is a bit fiddly. you also need the relays etc which fit under the bonnet, one is on the inner left guard, the other from memory is on the firewall, also the behind dash air ducting is a different shape with an extra dash vent, originally the right hand ducting was removed and blocked off but i left mine open on the hq.. the fan blower switch is different, has an extra speed from memory, the cables to the under dash plumbing is also different. you must fit new condenser and drier and hoses as they are usually stuffed and replacements are not that costly. if you use the new gas you don't need a drier as it does not have the observation bubble of the original. of course if you are going for originality you do want the old gas. but most likely the technician will want to replace the hoses as they can be dangerous and explode. remember they are pretty old and under a lot of pressure.
crowe Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 11:50:56 AM(UTC)
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Your e mail wont work
starks Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 4:19:17 PM(UTC)
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Hey Crowe, sorry if you had problems mate, wasnt that silly hypertext not showing the underscore between starks and 6 was it? . I got 2 emails from you with 5/6 pages thank you. The wiring looks pretty simple cheers for the diagrams!

Thanks johnperth. All this was recod or replaced by the previous owner but i would say I will end up running new lines etc anyway. Im a paintshop foreman at quite a large panel shop so Im lucky enough to have an aircon guy/ auto electrician come in most days so Ill have a chat to him regarding the lines and dryer. Cheers
Dr Terry Offline
#16 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 6:07:31 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by wbute
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
It'll be fine for a ute cab. If you want integrated it's probably your only only option.

I can't understand why the compressor fouls standard rocker covers.

Dr Terry

Why? You can fit the factory integrated. I put it in my WB ute.

I've probably worded that badly.

starks said that he didn't like the underbonnet appearance of the factory (Frigidaire) system. Given that & the fact that there were very few good aftermarket integrated systems available for HJ/X/Z in those days, the Air International system would be his only viable option.

On your other point, it was NOT practical for dealers to contemplate fitting the Frigidaire system back then purely on a cost basis.

I've fitted several Frigidaire system to cars in latter years, because IMHO they are by far the best system for these cars. But in those days at dealer level it was not practical to fit them to new cars. A good underdash system was around $300-$350 fitted & the Air Int. system was around $100 more, but assuming you could source all of the parts, a Frigidaire would have been well over $1,000.

Thrown in with the parts problem was the labour problem. As you know, to do the conversion properly it takes a serious number of hours, again not practical for a dealer to spend that amount on a new car. Down time was also higher. We could do an underdash or Air Int, system fit in well under a day, you won't do that with a Frigidaire system.

Warranty would be another issue. The Air Int. system, or any aftermarket unit, came as sub-assemblies, to make fitting, servicing & warranty claim/replacement a simple affair. Could you imagine after sourcing the hundreds of separate parts to fit a Frigidaire system, the paperwork to make a warranty claim for a failed (read badly fitted) part back thru the spare parts network.

As I said, what you say is technically possible, but not practically feasible.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
starks Offline
#17 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 7:42:55 PM(UTC)
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I dont mind the apprarance of the frigidaire system, its actually what I really wanted and was advertised, its the compressor brackets for the kit I have I dont like. I like to be able to work on the engine without a compressor in the middle of it lol. In saying that though since I rebuilt the 308, Rochester and HEI I do very little to her these days but drive her.

Ive bought an engine bracket to suit the larger compressor that mounts it on the side but im going to have to adapt brackets to fit the sanden compressor to the new engine bracket.
castellan Offline
#18 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 8:27:46 PM(UTC)
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When did the A6 Compressor first come about in a Holden, was it the HJ or HX, the Falcon had the old type up til the XE.
When was it that the A6 was replaced with the alloy cased type, VH ?
starks Offline
#19 Posted : Wednesday, 11 February 2015 10:08:26 PM(UTC)
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Heres a copy and paste from info smitty gave me on the aussiev8 forum...
aaah ..history lesson maybe.Since the really old horrible system used (like I am going back to HK/T days) GMH swapped to a reasonable good .. but power sappinglarge black compressor (and matching HUGE Evaporator) system sourced from 'HARRISON AIR' in the good ol'USAIt worked very well on HXs and HZs, even VB Commodores** but turn it on?... and about 50% of engine output was required to drive it.Worked well on 7 litre Cadillacs in the USA and but was needed here due to our heat (in the outback) or humidity (think FNQ) and did work well here.Come XT5 engine time (Improved performance 'blue' motors) and something in this area had to be done...as the Harrison HVAC systemjust nobbled the engines. So the HVAC system was put out to tender ( i was on the Supply committee evaluating this new system.. for price)and Air international won.. with a new generation 'lightweight' SANDEN (aka... SANKYO) aluminium compressor and in cabin evaporatorand nice light aluminium condensor hanging out front. So into VC with the new blue motor it went... but what about existing 'in stock'HARRISON system you might ask???�Easy lets stick them in a special run of cars to get rid of them... yep they all went into HDT 'Brock' SL/E VC Commodores.Way to go GMH�Finally... just one point, the Air International receiver/dryer (the black tube looking thinghy with the sight glass on top) has a life span�of maybe 5-7 years whereas the large silver HARRISON one lasts longer.. maybe 2-3 times longer. I know people running them in Holdensfrom the mid -late 70s and they are original !that help???
castellan Offline
#20 Posted : Thursday, 12 February 2015 7:29:52 AM(UTC)
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I thought the black steel round ones A6 ? were much better than the old piston type, that had come in my HG 253 Premier from new.
You could feel that old HG air con would really go to town hammering away when winding it out to 5500 rpm, and it was made of alloy just like the V8 XE Falcons I think or just painted silver.
I thought the HX Holdens round steel Harrison? compressor was much better than the old ones and then the alloy type sanden were better again for sapping less power out of the engine.
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