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HK1837 Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 27 May 2010 4:43:45 AM(UTC)
HK1837

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All

I finally found one. A genuine original GMH built vehicle with Holden 6cyl (EH-VK style 6cyl), with M21 stamped on the BODY plate. Guess what is is?

Anyone who frequents gmh-torana please don't spoil it for the rest!

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
redvcman Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 27 May 2010 5:35:33 AM(UTC)
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Just when I finally know something, & you don't want me to answer.........

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Warren Turnbull Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 27 May 2010 4:38:02 PM(UTC)
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Byron, is this a typo or was the car actually fitted with a 2.54:1 ratio M21 aussie 4 speed? (M21 2.54:1 ratio saginaw was option on HK, but they do not have M21 on the plate)

Warren

HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 27 May 2010 5:15:16 PM(UTC)
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Its model code is VB8VK69, L14 engine, driven by Peter Brock and is probably the single most famous of its kind.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
80569K Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 27 May 2010 6:30:42 PM(UTC)
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My hunch is the round Australia rally VB Commodore, wasn't there two of them built?
Dr Terry Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 27 May 2010 7:25:01 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by 80569K
My hunch is the round Australia rally VB Commodore, wasn't there two of them built?

There were at least 3 of them entered in the rally.

Dr Terry

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80569K Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 27 May 2010 7:36:51 PM(UTC)
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I remember reading somewhere that one of them had recently been 'rediscovered' in very good original condition.

Is my hunch correct?
cloudy Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 27 May 2010 11:37:26 PM(UTC)
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one is in the Birdwood motor museum.
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, 28 May 2010 2:01:43 AM(UTC)
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The car i'm talking about is the winner of the rally, and it's plated M21. The VB parts catalogue lists an XU-1 input shaft for the rally cars, but doesn't list anything else different. The only way this would all work would be if GMH used a V8 M21 box with an XU-1 input shaft, and this car is the proof.

I know of at least 5 of these cars. I think there were a fair few of them made. I'll look at the one I know of locally and see what its BODY plate says.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Mike81973 Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 28 May 2010 2:25:12 AM(UTC)
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Hi,
years ago I am sure I bought a M21 all Aussie box from a HQ tonner which I fitted to my Torana and rebuilt a couple of times.

The compliance was M21 but I haven't seen another 1 tonner with M21 stamped since, how common was it to have the M21 rather the M22?

Mike

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HK1837 Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, 28 May 2010 2:40:00 AM(UTC)
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I'd be very surprised if you had found an M21 in a HQ 1-tonner that was fitted there originally. The only 6cyl 4spd you could get in a HQ commercial was an M22, and you couldn't get a 308 in a HQ tonner so no M21 V8 box would have been possible. In fact you couldn't even get a V8 in a HQ 1 tonner until early 1973! The most likely place to find an M21 in a 1-tonner would be in a HJ-HZ BO6 (Ambulance), however the only 308 examples I've ever seen in one of these were fitted with column shift TH400. I suppose it was possible for someone on the inside to get a HQ V8 1-tonner ordered with a 253 and M21, but it is unlikely. However I believe this is the only way a HQ 1-tonner could have M21 on its plates. It would have to be a 1973 or 1974 model too. Are you sure also it was a HQ? Normal HJ-HZ tonners have HQ front panels...

As far as I am aware the only 6 cylinder Holden, Torana or Commodore to get a proper M21 box was the rally VB Commodores. Any others would have been either built by someone using an XU-1 input shaft and M21 box, or it was bought by a race team to run in a race LJ XU-1 as the M21 was homologated for use mid 1973. I'd love to see a 1973 homolgation XU-1 with M21 on the BODY plate, although I doubt one was built.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
jim Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, 28 May 2010 3:21:47 AM(UTC)
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Byron,You are right as far as I know(not far lol)but we are finding more and more unusual things every day,so anything is possible,but as you say,the proof is what we need as there are SO MANY legends of old...as you say "finally found one".. another day...lol

Jim in Adelaide...WTB CENTER LINE AUTO DRAGS 15X7 UPTO 8.5 WIDE.

Edited by user Friday, 28 May 2010 3:23:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jim in Adelaide..
cloudy Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, 28 May 2010 5:26:26 AM(UTC)
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If you wish to have a read on these cars there is a 6 page article on them in Modern Motor magazine Aug 1979 with the Brock repco car on the cover rego # AKZ-397 this car now resides in The national motor museum in SA.
cloudy Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, 28 May 2010 5:43:02 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
The car i'm talking about is the winner of the rally, and it's plated M21. The VB parts catalogue lists an XU-1 input shaft for the rally cars, but doesn't list anything else different. The only way this would all work would be if GMH used a V8 M21 box with an XU-1 input shaft, and this car is the proof.

I know of at least 5 of these cars. I think there were a fair few of them made. I'll look at the one I know of locally and see what its BODY plate says.

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18 `rally` commodores were `walked` down the line to make sure they were assembled correctly . various body seams were given extra spotwelds: not full seam-welding as often done to rally cars.underbody sound proofing was not put on. Some of the 18 cars went to privateers. HDT had 3 only 15 were private entrants, the HDT cars had 205 litre alloy petrol tanks.
HK1837 Offline
#15 Posted : Friday, 28 May 2010 5:44:01 AM(UTC)
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I saw it there last Easter, but I couldn't lift the bonnet. However someone else got a look and recorded the numbers for me!

The local car here that I know of had a big tank too.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Mike81973 Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, 29 May 2010 2:35:18 AM(UTC)
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Hi Mike here again,
sounds like my M21 was quite rare then.
I will try to remember more detail for the readers, the box came from a 1 tonner at the local Bunbury wreccker, I thought it was a HQ but it was 30 years ago now!
This wrecker supported Alan Blake, the WA State and National Speedway champion driving his XU-1 in the 70's.

As I had rebuilt this box at least twice and it was the first M21 I owned, I do however distinctly remember that it had the V8 2813497 cluster, and I made a point of going back to the wreckers to check the compliance.
I can also tell you that it had a tall first gear ( 2.54 ) and it had the typical close gap to second gear, A real pain when general driving, but by hell it went when a fast take of was required.
I know you are going to say someone probably made the box up, but this box was all original from a low milage 1 Tonner, it also had the two piece reverse gear shaft.

Mike



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HK1837 Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, 29 May 2010 3:37:41 AM(UTC)
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When did the 2 piece reverse idler finish? I thought it was before the BODY plate changed on Elizabeth BAP vehicles to show mechanical options? May make it a narrow window of production so I might try and find it one day on the records when I have the opportunity to see them for a long period!

I reckon it must have been a V8 1-tonner though, and it had been changed to a 6cyl and the box modified to suit. GMH surely wouldn't have allowed a 6cyl M21 tonner to be built! That would very much narrow down the search criteria to a 308 M21 1-tonner.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Mike81973 Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, 29 May 2010 7:30:15 AM(UTC)
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Hi Mike again,
I thought someone said that they did not make 308 HQ 1 tonners.

By my reconning the two piece reverse makes it a HQ and so do the linkages probably, as have just remembered it had the rubber grommets in the gearbox selector levers too.
It also had the chrome goose neck gearstick that the HQ had. ( I shortened this )

The 6cyl 1 tonner was a 1973 as far as I know, and I bought the M21 gearbox from it in 1978 or 9 so I would not think it would have had a engine swap that early in its life, but I suppose anything is possible?

Mike

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HK1837 Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, 29 May 2010 9:46:03 AM(UTC)
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They didn't make 308 HQ tonners, but they also didn't put M21 boxes behind 6 cylinders! My point was a 308 M21 or 253 M21 is 100 times more likely than a 6cyl one.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
silverJ Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, 29 May 2010 10:08:58 AM(UTC)
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Hey Mike, does your 899 have a 1 piece reverse idler?
My June 73 box does, was once told the casing mustve been
modded at some time to suit but doesnt look it & have seen
another 6/73 899 that also had a casing suited for the 1 piece.

Jono
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