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Dr Terry Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 3 December 2016 7:33:30 PM(UTC)
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Hi Guys.

Question time again for the brain trusts on the forum. Both questions relate to the XY series.

When the XY was first announced (Nov 70), the 250 2V was not part of the line-up, it was released mid-way thru the series, but when, what date ? Probably some time in 1971 !! Does anybody have a Ford press release from the era ?

Also I've noticed that most articles to do with the XY 4x4 ute, mention (or assume) that they came standard with a 250 ci engine. Is this correct ?? All the body ID plates I've recorded from 4x4 XY utes have the engine code G (200 ci). What did they have ??

The ID plates also have trans: J (non-synchro 3-sp colm. shift). I know they used a Borg Warner 3-sp all-synchro floor shift (mated to Spicer 2-sp transfer case) & the cars have seen have a red rocker cover, which usually signifies a 250 motor. Could it be that the cars were built on the regular production line with the 200/3-sp col. & then when converted the original drivetrain was dispensed with, making the original ID codes irrelevant ??

Dr Terry
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castellan Offline
#2 Posted : Sunday, 4 December 2016 10:07:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Hi Guys.

Question time again for the brain trusts on the forum. Both questions relate to the XY series.

When the XY was first announced (Nov 70), the 250 2V was not part of the line-up, it was released mid-way thru the series, but when, what date ? Probably some time in 1971 !! Does anybody have a Ford press release from the era ?

Also I've noticed that most articles to do with the XY 4x4 ute, mention (or assume) that they came standard with a 250 ci engine. Is this correct ?? All the body ID plates I've recorded from 4x4 XY utes have the engine code G (200 ci). What did they have ??

The ID plates also have trans: J (non-synchro 3-sp colm. shift). I know they used a Borg Warner 3-sp all-synchro floor shift (mated to Spicer 2-sp transfer case) & the cars have seen have a red rocker cover, which usually signifies a 250 motor. Could it be that the cars were built on the regular production line with the 200/3-sp col. & then when converted the original drivetrain was dispensed with, making the original ID codes irrelevant ??

Dr Terry


I do believe all XY 4X4 were 250 with red rocker cover just like the XA 302 V8 and I believe you are correct on the rest of what you say it was.

The F100 250 log motor got a blue rocker cover of what I remember of my dads 1976 one and it performed real well and the F100 302 auto's were truly gutless slugs with silver rocker covers like you see that the V8 XD-E got.

I thought that the 2V 250 was early in the XY they had a orange rocker cover.

The low compression 250 log motor got a lighter red rocker cover like the 351 V2 and the 200 got the blue, there must be some difference in the colour of the 200 engine and the F100 250 blue engine I don't know what colour the 200 low comp was, maybe a darker or a lighter blue, the Transit had the low comp 200.
Dr Terry Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, 5 December 2016 9:24:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post

I thought that the 2V 250 was early in the XY


AFAIK the 250 2V was released sometime in 1971, as it didn't rate a mention in any of the 1970 sales brochures.

I'm not sure when it finished, but I believe it was around the end of XA. Again, it doesn't appear in any XB literature.

I believe the reason it was discontinued because it wasn't that much cheaper than a 302 & used the same amount of fuel. Also Ford would've had to spend more money to pass emissions for ADR27 (1973/74) so probably just thought it was all too hard.

Dr Terry
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Dr Terry Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, 5 December 2016 11:43:25 AM(UTC)
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Getting back to the XY 4x4 ute, don't you think it strange that both the engine & trans codes on the ID plate do not match what is actually fitted to them ?

Were these cars fully built on the normal Ford assembly line or was the 4WD drivetrain fitted post-production ?

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
castellan Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 8 December 2016 3:46:26 PM(UTC)
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I was lead to believe the 250 2V was there to the last XA's, there was no 250 2V at all in the XB or any of the Cortina's.

I believe that the reason for the 250 2V had to do with the GS Falcon trying to take on the Holden HQ 253 SS and the Valiant VG 245 Pacer and VH Pacer class.

The 250 2V did not perform well against the others it was a flop, and the Aussie built 302 V8 Cleveland was being pushed to try keep the V8 viable as they did not sell as to what they had planed they would.

I just think it was that the XY 4X4 had problems with the gearbox and front diff and all coming late, if I remember correctly orders that were coming form the USA and the some of the same parts also go into a into a Jeep you could buy back then and they were fitted with the 200 Falcon engine I think.

They only made all the XY 4x4 in Brisbane and like you say them XY ute's they may of had the 200 fitted in that late date time as the XA ute came out in about Oct 1972 and the 200 XY is no different to the XA or they put them in the Jeeps so it would not be much of a problem to do.
They were maybe going to abort if the parts did not come in time.

I will have to look for what I have noted down about it all.
castellan Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, 9 December 2016 3:50:04 PM(UTC)
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The XY 4X4 was built on a Jeep chassis and the front diff was to weak for the big 250ci torque so that held them back a year, maybe they were going to use the 200ci to save the front diff if they could not get the bigger type diff.

The CJ 5 and long WB CJ6 Jeep got the option of the big Falcon 6 cyl from 1961 with the 144ci and them the 170ci and then 188ci and they use B/W diffs.
HK1837 Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, 10 December 2016 8:15:15 PM(UTC)
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What front diff was in the XY 4x4? Overlanders used similar stuff to Jeep, they had Dana44 front, Dana60 rear and Dana20 transfer.
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castellan Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, 12 December 2016 4:05:55 PM(UTC)
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Back in the 1960-9 CJ Jeeps they ran B/W rear they say as they only had 4 cyl and the 144 to 188 Ford 6, they may of got the 200 later, but using the XY 4X4 at the time broke the front one.
I think they are as you say in the XY 4X4.
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 14 December 2016 1:44:21 PM(UTC)
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You wouldn't easily break Dana44's with a Falcon 6. Chevy Blazers, K2500's, Ford F150 etc with V8's used Dana 44's. The Overlander driveline is essentially 1973-4 Chevy Blazer except the Overlander used a Dana60 rear axle rather than a 44. Basically the same as a 1970's Jeep Cherokee as well, and I think the Jeep J250 truck used the Dana60 rear, which had 360ci V8's from memory. The Dana60 is the next size diff up again from 9" or 12-bolt, Ford used them in F250's.
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castellan Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 16 December 2016 9:32:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
You wouldn't easily break Dana44's with a Falcon 6. Chevy Blazers, K2500's, Ford F150 etc with V8's used Dana 44's. The Overlander driveline is essentially 1973-4 Chevy Blazer except the Overlander used a Dana60 rear axle rather than a 44. Basically the same as a 1970's Jeep Cherokee as well, and I think the Jeep J250 truck used the Dana60 rear, which had 360ci V8's from memory. The Dana60 is the next size diff up again from 9" or 12-bolt, Ford used them in F250's.


The Aussie built jeeps were built from 1958 to 1968 that I know of and they could be optioned up if you had the balls up, to what they called a 'combat 6' where you got the huge power full Ford 6 cyl
just remember back in the day that Land Rover only had that crappy 4 cyl and people would toss them for a Holden 6 or Ford 200 6 cyl in the 70's and they would brake axles and diffs.

The front diff at the time first tested XY 4X4 was not a Dana 44 but must of been just what came with the Jeep chassis at the time, as the XY body was dropped on to such a chassis that was powered by nothing more that a 144 to 188 falcon engine and that was the high powered job of the Jeep at the time, I am not sure that the big 200 was an option in the CJ jeep but 144 170 and 188 was.

So the extra weight of the XT 4X4 with the high torque of the big 250 was too much for the original Jeep front diff and Ford had to order a bigger diff and that took a year before they got them diffs here in Australia.
So it held up the production of the XY 4X4 for 12 months. and they gave the falcon 4x4 all away because the XA ute body was not strong enough.

Maybe it was the unions back in them days that caused the delays down at the docks (they were real total morons back in them days), as when the Holden Overlander first came about the dude building them had a hell of a time the getting diffs and housings imported.

I remember back in the 70's on Fraser Island being driven back by a mad man in a Jeep,(it was fun) with what he said was a Ford XR 200 engine in it but it was a bigger type of Jeep then the CJ, a 230 Jeep I think they are called but they are called that many things and the Land Rovers mainly all had 186 in them one bloke even had a 202, I don't think that any more power was needed trying to hang on to something like that sure was fast.

A mates old man had a 6 cyl Land Rover engine puled down and it surprised me to see that this engine had one intake valve in the head and a exhaust valve in the block and that the piston top had a huge lump wave on it.
Dr Terry Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, 17 December 2016 7:36:03 AM(UTC)
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Well I managed to clear up a few queries. I found a factory workshop manual supplement for these things (WM-14).

The engine is definitely a 250 ci 6-cyl & the 3-sp manual & transfer case were as I thought.

Both front & rear diffs are Dana 44s, but the interesting thing is that their ratios are not identical.

The tooth count differs; the front is 4.10 (41/10) & the rear is 4.09 (45/11). Apparently this is common with many 4x4s, but I've never noticed that before.

Also the brakes are 11-inch drums all round, very 1960s !!

The only thing the workshop manual didn't answer was my original question re: the the engine & transmission codes on the body ID plate. Unlike most factory workshop manuals this one has no section relating to identification.

Dr Terry
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HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, 18 December 2016 7:50:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
You wouldn't easily break Dana44's with a Falcon 6. Chevy Blazers, K2500's, Ford F150 etc with V8's used Dana 44's. The Overlander driveline is essentially 1973-4 Chevy Blazer except the Overlander used a Dana60 rear axle rather than a 44. Basically the same as a 1970's Jeep Cherokee as well, and I think the Jeep J250 truck used the Dana60 rear, which had 360ci V8's from memory. The Dana60 is the next size diff up again from 9" or 12-bolt, Ford used them in F250's.


The Aussie built jeeps were built from 1958 to 1968 that I know of and they could be optioned up if you had the balls up, to what they called a 'combat 6' where you got the huge power full Ford 6 cyl
just remember back in the day that Land Rover only had that crappy 4 cyl and people would toss them for a Holden 6 or Ford 200 6 cyl in the 70's and they would brake axles and diffs.

The front diff at the time first tested XY 4X4 was not a Dana 44 but must of been just what came with the Jeep chassis at the time, as the XY body was dropped on to such a chassis that was powered by nothing more that a 144 to 188 falcon engine and that was the high powered job of the Jeep at the time, I am not sure that the big 200 was an option in the CJ jeep but 144 170 and 188 was.

So the extra weight of the XT 4X4 with the high torque of the big 250 was too much for the original Jeep front diff and Ford had to order a bigger diff and that took a year before they got them diffs here in Australia.
So it held up the production of the XY 4X4 for 12 months. and they gave the falcon 4x4 all away because the XA ute body was not strong enough.

Maybe it was the unions back in them days that caused the delays down at the docks (they were real total morons back in them days), as when the Holden Overlander first came about the dude building them had a hell of a time the getting diffs and housings imported.

I remember back in the 70's on Fraser Island being driven back by a mad man in a Jeep,(it was fun) with what he said was a Ford XR 200 engine in it but it was a bigger type of Jeep then the CJ, a 230 Jeep I think they are called but they are called that many things and the Land Rovers mainly all had 186 in them one bloke even had a 202, I don't think that any more power was needed trying to hang on to something like that sure was fast.

A mates old man had a 6 cyl Land Rover engine puled down and it surprised me to see that this engine had one intake valve in the head and a exhaust valve in the block and that the piston top had a huge lump wave on it.


The Landrovers certainly did break rear axles, I don't recall hearing of too many fronts though. They changed to a Dana diff for SeriesIII though, it was a UK made Dana 60 I think. Still kept the same front diff though if I remember correctly.

Arthur Haywood had all his drivelines landed around 1974-5. It was vehicle compliance that held him up. My HZ cab-chassis Overlander was build mid 1978, and its axles were from that original stuff landed here in 1974. The axles were both date coded 1974.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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