Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Take the time to read our Privacy Policy.

5 Pages123>»
Leary360 Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 8:19:57 AM(UTC)
Leary360

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 10
Australia
Location: Sale

Hi All,
First post on this forum,
My name is Cam and I'm from Sale Victoria.
Just purchased the car I've always wanted and have started the restoration process.
I'm looking to firstly identify the car and then restore to as original as practical.
I've been reading a lot of good information on this forum and thought it might be time to make a thread and ask some questions in regards to my car.

I purchased the car under the impression it was a factory 308 TH400 LSD HZ Premier, It has been sitting in a friends shed for the last 10 years or more and since he has owned it little has been changed.
He drove it as a daily driver and parked it up when it developed a bottom end knock.
After doing a little research I've discovered its not the original motor or TH400 in it and that it was originally a m21 4 speed.
apart from that, it is entirely original (except wheels of coarse)

So my hunt has begun to source as much original or as close to parts as possible.
I'm looking to identify a rough cast date for a block, I have original accusation receipt and engine number but this doesn't give me a cast date.
The engine number is QT802610 ( hard to make out on receipt) and build date on the compliance plate says 10/77
I've punched in the vin on a vin decoder and it came back as a 78 however the date on the receipt was 11/77, Is this normal?
I'm currently enquiring about a qt block on eBay with a Feb 77 cast date and the engine number starts with QT86, Does this mean my block would have been cast before this date?

I'm reading all of these threads that people are able to match engine numbers with build dates and all sorts of things, however i'm un-able to find where they get there information, Is this something that is available to the public or is it simply someone with possession of ancient records?
I'm happy to do the research only finding it hard to find these records / info!

Thanks in advance for any help, I'm sure I'll have many more questions as I go

Cam

When I Picked it up
[img=]HZ Prem[/img]



Edited by user Wednesday, 5 July 2017 1:43:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 11:28:30 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,730

Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 68 post(s)
Cam

What does the body plate state? I find it hard to believe is was a 308 4spd HZ Premier. From HJ, Premier was standard with auto transmission.

Don't worry about chasing casting dates, that is a fool's errand especially for something like a Premier. If you don't have the original engine what you have is as good as any other engine that is not original to the car. QT802610 is from a HX Holden (any HX but a Statesman) from around 10-11/76.

11/77 is a 1978 model Holden. 1978 model years starts on 1/9/77.

Post up the VIN of the car and i'll see what it was originally. The VIN is on the skinny ID plate. You will not find anything publically other than a rego records search with the car's chassis number.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
tuckerbag Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 11:49:48 AM(UTC)
tuckerbag

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 17

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 1 post(s)
A friend of mine has a 78 HZ premier factory 308 4speed. It has factory dual exhaust factory gts dash and is a mint green colour inc roof
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 11:55:52 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,730

Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 68 post(s)
They exist, but very uncommon. Not a car that you could readily order. The number of L31 M21 HZ Kingswood SL sedans that were made is down in build numbers comparable to HX LE. L31 M21 HZ Premier sedan a whole order of magnitude less again.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
gm5735 Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 1:47:38 PM(UTC)
gm5735

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 665
Man
Location: Victoria

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 25 time(s) in 25 post(s)
If the car was originally registered in Victoria, and you know the rego number Vicroads can and will supply a copy of the original registration application. This will give you an engine number, chassis number and other information.
I have some as far back as 1968 so it can be done.
Leary360 Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 6:55:33 PM(UTC)
Leary360

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 10
Australia
Location: Sale

Original Books


Edited by user Wednesday, 5 July 2017 1:48:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cocko750 Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 6:58:50 PM(UTC)
Cocko750

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 47

A bloke in town ordered a Hz premier 253/4sp this had sports dash also very nice old car a Telstra worker bought it 2nd hand and had it for years, he wouldn't sell it to me when young and then disappeared, got told it was a runabout-shooting rig on a farm! Probably wrecked and scrapped now!
Also I have a parts car Kingswood sl it was 2 tone white over Caribbean L31 M21 chamois fabric interior would have been a really nice car new!
Leary360 Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 7:35:20 PM(UTC)
Leary360

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 10
Australia
Location: Sale

I'm having problems uploading images, Ive tried 3 different image hosting sites and can't get it to work.

Vin Plate reads
8P69THL396981Z

body plate reads
Model: HZ8W P 69
Body No: 396981-A
Trim: 1934-18X
Paint: 567-30525
Eng: L31 Trans: M21 RRAxle: GU4

It all matches the accusation receipt and service books.
Has yellow needle (woodgrain) GTS dash and steering wheel
factory A/C
Even still has the original manual pedal box (with the clutch pedal tucked underneath the carpet)
The only thing out of place that doesn't make sense to me is it has black fabric seats, its the only pre I've seen without vinyl seats
I've got photo's but can't work out how to get them hosted, the normal way I've done it in the past doesn't seem to be working

Thanks Cam



Edited by user Wednesday, 5 July 2017 2:05:36 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 29 June 2017 8:19:37 PM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,730

Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 68 post(s)
Bugger worrying about it not being an L31 M41 car! What you have is a very rare delete optioned HZ Premier, where someone has optioned the car heavily but delete optioned the auto transmission. It is also an optional rear axle which again is very rare, and in this case awful - a 308 4spd with a 3.08 rear axle is not nice to drive!

What you have is an HZ Premier sedan. Optioned with (that I can tell so far):

L31
GU4 rear axle
G80 LSD
C60 A/C
XW6 Metallic Group 1 (I think Atlantis Blue is Group 1).
U17 instruments
Delete M41 and replace with M21.
XS9 Cloth trim. Your 18X trim is Slate black with black Corniche cloth insert.

Probably has heaps of other options too like wheels, antenna etc.

You should get onto Holden Historical Services for a report! This car has its original engine number recorded too.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Cocko750 Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 30 June 2017 6:48:46 AM(UTC)
Cocko750

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 47

I'd like a nice prem as per This or any other H model, at least they only put the pedal under carpet for you, not sure what year my sl is but I've got the 308-4sp from it hidden away
Warren Turnbull Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, 30 June 2017 9:00:27 PM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,133

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
4 speed was No Cost Option, NCO, or Reduced Cost option, RCO, on Premier from HJ, depending on engine/auto combo, not a delete auto option. There are a few 4 speed Premiers around, but as Byron said, they are rare.

Holden Historic Services will only give a report if you have the original engine number, chassis number and body number. They will not supply if you do not have all of them.

NK3 is the sports steering wheel.
XW6 is standard/NCO on Premier.


Warren

Edited by user Friday, 30 June 2017 9:02:17 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 9:12:54 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,730

Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 68 post(s)
He has the original books Warren so has the engine number. I forgot to mention this one also has JM8 - rear disc brakes.

According to the POA books NK3 wasn't available until January 1 1978 production, so this one may be dealer fitted or just one of those unusual things.

I reckon it probably had N10 dual exhaust as well but maybe not.
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Warren Turnbull Offline
#13 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 10:28:17 AM(UTC)
Warren Turnbull

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,133

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
I think JM8 was standard on V8 Premier.

Did not realize he had the books, as the original statement was that he had a receipt with the HX engine number on it and that he researched to realize it was not the original engine. Simple look up in books would have given that.

Edited by user Saturday, 1 July 2017 10:31:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Leary360 Offline
#14 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 11:24:03 AM(UTC)
Leary360

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 10
Australia
Location: Sale

HI All,
Thanks for all the replies, I've just made enquiries with HHS and waiting on a response.

HK1837
What do you mean "Bugger worrying about it not being a L31 M41 car?"?
Are you saying its not worth trying to restore back to factory spec?
It doesn't have dual exhaust on it now, however the exhaust doesn't look that old so I would say it has been changed.

Cocko750
Definitely interested in the motor and 4 speed you have, I've sent you a PM
Thanks

Warren Turnbull
I purchased this car from a friend ( one of my workers), who is not mechanically minded and couldn't give me a lot of info on it.
I asked him if it was an original 308 th400 and he told me that he hadn't changed a thing since he owned it and he bought it off an older lady who he thinks had it from new.
Everything looked original and complete so I didn't really look any further as I was happy to finally own a HZ premier (as I have always wanted).
It was after purchasing it and already starting to return things to factory spec that I realised it wasn't the original motor and gearbox, I was actually removing the gas system, Pulling wires through the fire wall when I found the clutch pedal.
It was only then that I started looking into the body plate and found the original books under the seat.

So I've had a little win, I've discovered that the bottom end knock turned out to be the bolts on the flex plate hitting on the sheetmetal converter cover (which was loose).
So there is noting mechanically wrong with the motor.
So now I'm a little un-sure as to which way to go with it,
HK1837 what do you mean its not worth chasing cast dates and things?
Are you saying that the TH400 and motor that are in it are just as good as finding a 308 tri pattern block of similar cast date to original? (as I have found one with a 10/76 cast date)
I'm in no rush and are willing to take my time sourcing parts, however if I'm waisting my time it's a different story.

Thanks Cam




HK1837 Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 11:44:02 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,730

Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 68 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
I think JM8 was standard on V8 Premier.

Did not realize he had the books, as the original statement was that he had a receipt with the HX engine number on it and that he researched to realize it was not the original engine. Simple look up in books would have given that.


JM8 in confusing Warren, it doesn't explicitly say anywhere that I can find that it comes along with a V8 engine if you option it in a Premier, not that I can find anywhere anyway. It may have become standard when L32 became the base engine in Premier? All I can find is later in Premier L32, N40 and XS9 became standard.

Later post down mention is made of original docs.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
HK1837 Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 11:53:12 AM(UTC)
HK1837

Rank: Veteran

Reputation:

Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,730

Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 68 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Leary360 Go to Quoted Post
HI All,
Thanks for all the replies, I've just made enquiries with HHS and waiting on a response.

HK1837
What do you mean "Bugger worrying about it not being a L31 M41 car?"?
Are you saying its not worth trying to restore back to factory spec?
It doesn't have dual exhaust on it now, however the exhaust doesn't look that old so I would say it has been changed.

Cocko750
Definitely interested in the motor and 4 speed you have, I've sent you a PM
Thanks

Warren Turnbull
I purchased this car from a friend ( one of my workers), who is not mechanically minded and couldn't give me a lot of info on it.
I asked him if it was an original 308 th400 and he told me that he hadn't changed a thing since he owned it and he bought it off an older lady who he thinks had it from new.
Everything looked original and complete so I didn't really look any further as I was happy to finally own a HZ premier (as I have always wanted).
It was after purchasing it and already starting to return things to factory spec that I realised it wasn't the original motor and gearbox, I was actually removing the gas system, Pulling wires through the fire wall when I found the clutch pedal.
It was only then that I started looking into the body plate and found the original books under the seat.

So I've had a little win, I've discovered that the bottom end knock turned out to be the bolts on the flex plate hitting on the sheetmetal converter cover (which was loose).
So there is noting mechanically wrong with the motor.
So now I'm a little un-sure as to which way to go with it,
HK1837 what do you mean its not worth chasing cast dates and things?
Are you saying that the TH400 and motor that are in it are just as good as finding a 308 tri pattern block of similar cast date to original? (as I have found one with a 10/76 cast date)
I'm in no rush and are willing to take my time sourcing parts, however if I'm waisting my time it's a different story.

Thanks Cam






You originally said you bought it with the impression it was an L31 M41 car. I said bugger worrying about that, you have a far rarer car. You'll pick if it was factory dual exhaust by the hangers on the big member above and in front of the rear axle. The bracket holds the exhaust at the back of the muffler. One hanger on passenger side means single exhaust. Bracket on both sides means dual exhaust.

I said chasing cast dates is a fool's errand. They mean nothing tangible and any 308 that is not the original is as good as any other. You are best off chasing a Nasco/GMP&A replacement engine with NT prefix. If you want to chase your tail and look for another QT 308 chase engine numbers close to your original, not casting dates. I would use what you have except it is going to be an auto block and you want a manual one if you intend to change it back to a 4spd. But remember an M21 aussie 4spd with a 3.08 rear axle is not exactly user friendly to drive. The normal rear axle is 3.36 with L31 M21. If you are in Sydney you can get your block redrilled to manual pattern easily.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
wbute Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 6:02:02 PM(UTC)
wbute

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Curious why 3.08 diff with an M21 and 308 would be a bad option? As far as a highway cruiser goes, it would be 100% better than the lower diff. It might be a bit harder starting off in traffic all day, but no one is going to use a 40 year old premier like that these days.
KBM Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 7:04:14 PM(UTC)
KBM

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 21/04/2017(UTC)
Posts: 90
Australia
Location: Tolmie

Thanks: 1 times
maybe wbute has the answer to why the motor/trans has been changed. if the "older lady" owner was having trouble driving her new car in traffic she might have inquired about a change to auto.
a good mechanic of the time would've change both motor and trans to suit which would've been readily available, hence no original numbers. back then they didn't worry about what we look for now as collectors/restorers.
wbute Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 7:35:13 PM(UTC)
wbute

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
I know of a factory 5 litre HZ SL station wagon. 4 speed, GTS dash and factory air, bucket seats. My neighbour owned it. He died and it sat in the shed for 20 years. An old pensioner moved into their cottage. He found it, convinced the widow to let him use it to drive from the homestead to his cottage as a bush basher. The V8 was costing to much in fuel so he got it pulled out and put a 6 in it!
By the time he had flogged it over the bush track for a few years it was completely buggered. The last I saw it the some local pig chasers got it and stripped it.
I promised HK I would get the tags years ago, but I couldn't get them.
Cocko750 Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, 1 July 2017 8:07:17 PM(UTC)
Cocko750

Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 47

I'll have a look tomorrow leary360 I'm actually at storage area,3.5hrs from home,but I'm not sure what I'm doing yet as I have a Hx which the engine is close enough in dates to but will let you know I'll try and post some photos tomorrow
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
5 Pages123>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2017, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.497 seconds.