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KBM Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 13 September 2017 6:44:05 PM(UTC)
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castellan and wannabe51 are having a great time with trump but what about some of the minority groups we've got over here. I know i'm opening a can of worms but as I remember marriage was between man and woman with the sole purpose of creating babies so how do same sex couples deliver the goods? I'm not against same sex union as I know a few couples who are happy with the way it is but why do the minority want "marriage". Is it for the sole purpose of getting the benefits from the government for married couples?
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 13 September 2017 8:11:30 PM(UTC)
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As far as I'm aware the ATO and Centrelink treat same sex couples the same as defacto couples or married couples.
I'm not interested in arguing with anyone on this, but I think it is grossly unfair for us (as in non- homosexuals) to decide the fate and happiness of others, it is none of my business. Plus the only reason we are having this vote is both sides of politics is controlled by the conservatives in their parties on this issue. They can't just have a free vote on it.
I personally hate that religion is trying to control this too, marriage is no longer a religious institution, and the hide of them of whatever faith to look down on others.
I've heard the argument too about man and woman sex is to create babies. I ask anyone, how many times have you had sex and created a baby? Most blokes might claim 1 or 2 from 100's, pretty poor batting average. I'm 0 from however many, the same as most same sex couples. So does that mean I shouldn't be married or ever have sex either?

My thoughts anyway, I'm all for what is fair.
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Dr Terry Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 14 September 2017 7:47:31 AM(UTC)
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It's good to see a sensible non-confrontational discussion on this issue. It seems that you are automatically labelled a homophobe if you don't agree with the whole 'Yes' argument.

I'm with KBM. I'm fine with adults, same sex or otherwise, living how they want & I have no trouble with a civil union between same same sex couple with all of the same legal entitlements as a normal married couple. But, & it's a big but, I think that many people, especially older married couples have a big problem with the word 'marriage' being re-defined. Why can't they just call it a 'civil union' & be done with it. That wouldn't alienate so many of the population. This whole thing is so decisive in so many ways.

The other issue, that I have, is why are the 'Yes' campaigners so vehemently against a public vote on the subject, are they afraid it would fail ?

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gm5735 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 14 September 2017 9:56:28 AM(UTC)
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I'm with you on that one Terry. I'm always suspicious of groups that claim to have an overwhelming majority, yet shy away from putting it to the test.

Also the claims that the Liberals are weak for running the postal survey and not making the decision in the parliament. A plebiscite was one of their election promises and they were, after all, elected. It was blocked by the senate, so the postal survey seems to be all they can do at the momemt. To me the Libs are honouring an election promise in spirit.

According to a recent Roy Morgan poll, depending on age, between 2 and 6% of the population profess to be gay. I personally have nothing against them, in fact count a few as friends, but I believe there will be at least as high a proportion of the population for whom marriage is a sacrosanct institution.

I'm personally ambivalent about the definition of marriage, but I dislike any group claiming to know what I think without actually asking.

castellan Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 14 September 2017 10:51:31 AM(UTC)
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What they the Socialist are trying to do is change the definition of the word Marriage and in that they will make it only become a partnership and it's not as simple as the Socialist are trying to make out, they are very cunning and devious in there intents, so much is hidden that they do not want to debate and shut any such down. much like Nazi and Communist tactics did to control a subject and only to get their way.

Once it's Law then we will see all the BS come out, the degenerate safe schools programs controlled by child molesters and f whits forcing there deviate moronic trash on our kids and no parent is allowed to have a say in any of it at all and if you take your kid out of the class you will go to jail and fined, as is done in one State in the USA now.

It's in all the detail that is hidden that is the biggest concern, not that gay's can't have a partnership because they can under the law now anyway.
This attempt is about the whims of around only 10% of the gay population in fact and that's all it is that want to get married, what's that not even 1% of our Nation not even half of that, the true reason is just Socialist attempting to push Political Correctness as a god over all of the people, it's the same shit as Hitler and the Communist did and that's to try to control the peoples thoughts and if anyone is out of line with what the leadership says they you then become an enemy of the State.

It's all about making everyone equal, so that the lowest denominator becomes a mechanism of control, it's Marxism making people nobody's, it's an attack on the family and just some shit kicker Sodomite thinks his rights are equal to a man who has family values is in fact being undermined.

Look I am sure that the yes vote will win regardless of what the no say, because the New World Order will force it on us because it's a Satanic Order, Satan is the one who leads the whole world astray, this mob will wipe out 90% of the worlds population and they have said so under the UN agenda 21 go look it up it's a fact.

It's not about gays at all, that's only a façade to the true attempt to control people with Political Correctness so as to work to destroy freedom of speech.
Freedom of Speech is under attack and once the PC Nazis control that, your up shit creek without a paddle, it's an attack on the fundamentals of a healthy Democracy, fact is that even Hitler's Nazi Germany was a Democracy but fundamentally unhealthy foundations of democracy.

I am a member of the Australian Conservatives Party and I have parents come to me saying that their children will not listen to them at all and go mental ranting and raving claiming that what the school push is a fact in all matters, parents are disregarded totally of any views that they have, and that's is the same crap that happened in Nazi Germany in fact. it's brainwashing crap bastardising our children and it will not be long and the kids will be dobbing in their parents for not being PC.
The younger generation themselves lack the capacity of truly in depth art of rational thinking and they only look to their stupid I phone for information, not to mention ignorant and rude little brats beyond belief, if you point out any position that does not line up with theirs they want to start a fight you.(just like the Nazi bastards did)
Oh well they will learn the hard way when the Nation turns into total shit hole garbage dump of degenerate bastards with no morals worth jack shit and certainly no fortitude at all in anyone.
wannabe51 Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 14 September 2017 2:39:42 PM(UTC)
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Thanks HK1837, I endorse your sentiments, and do not feel threatened in any way by this debate.
sgo Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 14 September 2017 5:29:38 PM(UTC)
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What is it that makes married heterosexual couples so precious about the title "marriage" that they feel they're the only ones that can use that term?
You are not that special.
Whatever it is, get over it, everyone should have the same rights in our society.
KBM Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 14 September 2017 8:02:26 PM(UTC)
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I don't think anyone is against the fact of two people who are happy to share their lives together should be treated differently but why change the reference to a belief that all of our parents and their parents took as right just to make under 1% of the population feel good

and for the batting average I've been in for just under 28 overs and faced plenty of balls but made no runs.

Edited by user Thursday, 14 September 2017 8:13:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

sgo Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 14 September 2017 8:48:17 PM(UTC)
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Just because some people think something is historically right doesn't make it right, society has moved on from the dark ages.

If the survey results published to date are correct, it would make more than 1% of the population happy, maybe more like 60%

And you are correct, two people that want to share their lives together shouldn't be treated differently, let them marry like you or I can.


castellan Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 15 September 2017 10:09:44 AM(UTC)
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Society has gone backwards it's backwards and degenerate, what atheist people want is a just a partnership and they are too foolish to know what a Marriage truly is, ( but they like the word )
Our forefathers sure knew what a Marriage was and never tossed in the towel at the drop of a hat and people looked down on anyone who did as trash and right enough, no government hand outs back then bro and no government helping to split the family up or supporting some dumb mole have kids to many fathers.

A mate years ago that has kids to 5 different wives that I know of and that was 6 kids that he never gave a toss about, never gave any of them the time of day, I know of one them got in trouble with the law, he had no father so sure he went off the rails, like many do.
Become a cop and see all the problems that a degenerate society creates first hand, it's all got to do with dickheads who think they can just do what ever they want, not to mention who has to pick up the pieces ?
Most people who get on drugs steal or try knife or bash others come from not having a father.(but not all)

Nowadays a lot of short sighted narrow minded idiots claim a stolen generation as the wrong thing to do, fact was it was the correct thing to do in the majority and I have two good mates from 9 years old who did not have a dad and are of them people they saved, it's just lovely for a young kid not to have a true family because some prick just walks off, not to mention back in them days the other blacks would hang shit on him for living in a church home.
True Abo tradition never had one just walk off from family and it's the same with any when you look into history but for this generation of selfish ego driven twats that can't handle the truth or reality.

Hell is going to be payed for all the degenerates that this 3rd rate socialist society has helped to create become a bastard society.
You will see the marriage of 9 year olds in Australia come about with a yes vote as it will become legal to do so as Islamic nations do it and it will become under discrimination law to reject such a thing.
You will be able to have a marriage to your pet animals as well, it's done in many nations even in Germany it's legal. so crap like so will come here as well.

It's much more to it than two sodomites living together, their is nothing they can't do now, I know two poofs from the 70's who have lived together they don't give a toss about married and no one has ever given them any trouble about being poofters even back in the 70's and they have all their boy friends and have always did what they please, one was called Jimmy two dollar who was a pub bar man who gave head jobs for $2 and everyone knew it and he would call out two dollar and all in the pub would just laugh about it.
sgo Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, 15 September 2017 11:40:45 AM(UTC)
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Marriage used to be a way of controlling women as property, gaining in-laws, making alliances and expanding the family labor force.

It really was not about the relationship between the couple.

It's only recently been transformed into a bond between equals with love and companionship.

This change in definition has paved the way for the debate we are now having, and probably the next stage of an evolving institution.
castellan Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, 15 September 2017 3:42:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sgo Go to Quoted Post
Marriage used to be a way of controlling women as property, gaining in-laws, making alliances and expanding the family labor force.

It really was not about the relationship between the couple.

It's only recently been transformed into a bond between equals with love and companionship.

This change in definition has paved the way for the debate we are now having, and probably the next stage of an evolving institution.



With the Jews and Islam people are sold and under Socialism all become just a product number to be controlled under the law by the Law.

But under Christ Jesus it came under Grace, not under the Law and the intent was the rearing of children as a Family.

I have companionship with my mates who I respect and it's a bond between us but we are not equal, I have never met a person who was my equal yet nor is anyone equal in anyway that I have ever seen.
Equal what ? Equal under God is the only one that's true, all the rest is just truly BS nonsense, who is stronger than who or wealthier, smarter there is no equal no mater how you look at it in fact.
My wife is not equal to me she has her virtues strengths and weaknesses just as I have my own, she dose things better than me and some I am better at and that's a fact of life in everything.
But Socialism builds up the ego to believe in nonsense that just is not true and hey they claim truth is what they term as relative. so there you go they are full of it.
Under socialism the dunce of the class even gets an award.
HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, 15 September 2017 7:17:55 PM(UTC)
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I'll say a few more things.

This IS NOT A RELIGOUS DEBATE (Australia wide I mean, not here). It has nothing to do with Allah, God, Jesus or earlier incarnations of these like Jehovah (or Jahweh/YHWH if you like), Ra, Jupiter, Zeus etc. just to name a few. It is about the basic right of anyone who is a citizen of this country to be treated equally. Homosexual couples are already treated equally by both taxation (ATO) and benefits (Centrelink).

I'll tell a little story. My wife and I were sitting on the courtyard in our first evening at Giraffe Manor this time last year (in Nairobi, Kenya (Google it, awesome place!)). We were feeding Giraffes, and talking to other guests. We were having a conversation with a guy from the USA. After about 10 minutes he said to both of us, looking us in the eye "you do realise I am gay?". I think I said something to my mrs gesturing to him, like "Captain obvious here", which he thought was awesome. He told my Mrs they'd be best friends if they lived nearby, he simply was not used to being accepted like he was by us, and also his partner who we then met. I was really looking forward to having a better chat with them at dinner that night, they were both well educated professionals. But they didn't come. I asked them the next morning: "where were you? Was looking forward to a few drinks and laughs". But as in their home country they always felt ostracized they had a private dinner.

To me the above is very sad. Think about it, do we really want to live in a country where anyone feels excluded be that by religion, race, colour or sexuality. That feeling of exclusion must be horrific. Yes sure, there are some lefties and right wingers out there who are in your face, but like the very right winged "radicals" those severe left "radicals" are also destroying the main message here. That everyone should be at least given the opportunity to be equal. If people choose to be not equal and live their own life it is their choice. But for those that simply want to be included, have the right to say "I do" and live as a married couple then who are any of us to deny them? Look back at the 60's if a white man wanted to marry a black women who he loved, and was frowned upon, shunned and told no. Imagine that was you for a minute? I know it might be hard to put yourself in a gay man or woman's shoes, but just think about it for a minute, how would you feel about being ostracized? Being treated differently, even strangers actually being surveyed about your life? It annoys me that we are even asked.
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wannabe51 Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, 15 September 2017 9:28:40 PM(UTC)
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Thanks HK1837, there is a great book called Jackson's Track, set in the Wariggal area of West Gippsland, Vic. It is a true love story about white and black love in the 1950 -60s and how society, in general were opposed to this love.
This same sex marriage debate appears to be focussing on the ugliest aspects of society,s prejudice and fears.
I am unsure if there is a moderator for this site, but I cannot be the only person to feel somewhat nauseated by comments made by "Castellen" in this debate.
sgo Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, 16 September 2017 8:52:23 AM(UTC)
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Your reaction to some comments here is totally justified, but free speech and all that...

To see these views posted brings home the fact that there are actually people out there with those beliefs !
Bit of an eye opener really, but we need reminding that that alternative reality exists.

castellan Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, 16 September 2017 9:50:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wannabe51 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks HK1837, there is a great book called Jackson's Track, set in the Wariggal area of West Gippsland, Vic. It is a true love story about white and black love in the 1950 -60s and how society, in general were opposed to this love.
This same sex marriage debate appears to be focussing on the ugliest aspects of society,s prejudice and fears.
I am unsure if there is a moderator for this site, but I cannot be the only person to feel somewhat nauseated by comments made by "Castellen" in this debate.


I could say the same about you wannabe, get over yourself coming the high handed dictator trying to shut down anything that you just want to hear, that's what bigots do don't they, that's the definition, one eyed view and jump up and down with a narrow minded viewed spac attack wanting to close down debate, because the dinky fairy's may get upset to have to live in the reality of real world.

It's got nothing to do with focussing on the aspects you claim at all, it's about that the gay Marriage is used as a ruse, it's very cunningly artful in how it's being played to dupe people into believing it's all about Marriage.

I have pointed out that gays can do what ever they want in the law already and I don't give a toss and never did that such live together, not to mention when has anyone said they can't in Australia.

It's intent is to make Political Correctness a god over all people and destroy freedom of speech, the cards at play are to do it with Socialism and that's what is truly at work in all this and it's so deviously underhanded like all fabian Socialist game plays are.

If it was truly about gay marriage(unions) who cares, but it's about changing the definition of the word Marriage under the Law, so No I do not want my Marriage lowered to a union status like a partnership because it's not truly the same at all in fact, if you bother to look into it in depth. bogans can't see such reality's because they are narrow minded not to mention highly offensive in the extreme to us who are Married and take our vows seriously, because it's a way of life, it's a Sacrament for crying out loud, it's under Grace. so it's an offence to us Catholics in the highest extreme, what are we going to do ? make up another name for it because that name has been high jacked by bogans who don't know what they are truly doing and nor do they care.

Edited by user Saturday, 16 September 2017 10:49:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

castellan Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, 16 September 2017 11:34:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I'll say a few more things.

This IS NOT A RELIGOUS DEBATE (Australia wide I mean, not here). It has nothing to do with Allah, God, Jesus or earlier incarnations of these like Jehovah (or Jahweh/YHWH if you like), Ra, Jupiter, Zeus etc. just to name a few. It is about the basic right of anyone who is a citizen of this country to be treated equally. Homosexual couples are already treated equally by both taxation (ATO) and benefits (Centrelink).

I'll tell a little story. My wife and I were sitting on the courtyard in our first evening at Giraffe Manor this time last year (in Nairobi, Kenya (Google it, awesome place!)). We were feeding Giraffes, and talking to other guests. We were having a conversation with a guy from the USA. After about 10 minutes he said to both of us, looking us in the eye "you do realise I am gay?". I think I said something to my mrs gesturing to him, like "Captain obvious here", which he thought was awesome. He told my Mrs they'd be best friends if they lived nearby, he simply was not used to being accepted like he was by us, and also his partner who we then met. I was really looking forward to having a better chat with them at dinner that night, they were both well educated professionals. But they didn't come. I asked them the next morning: "where were you? Was looking forward to a few drinks and laughs". But as in their home country they always felt ostracized they had a private dinner.

To me the above is very sad. Think about it, do we really want to live in a country where anyone feels excluded be that by religion, race, colour or sexuality. That feeling of exclusion must be horrific. Yes sure, there are some lefties and right wingers out there who are in your face, but like the very right winged "radicals" those severe left "radicals" are also destroying the main message here. That everyone should be at least given the opportunity to be equal. If people choose to be not equal and live their own life it is their choice. But for those that simply want to be included, have the right to say "I do" and live as a married couple then who are any of us to deny them? Look back at the 60's if a white man wanted to marry a black women who he loved, and was frowned upon, shunned and told no. Imagine that was you for a minute? I know it might be hard to put yourself in a gay man or woman's shoes, but just think about it for a minute, how would you feel about being ostracized? Being treated differently, even strangers actually being surveyed about your life? It annoys me that we are even asked.


Hang on back in the days of abo marriage to a Pommy say, was frowned upon ?
It was just common sense as the cultural differences were just so vast in reality and if you ever lived with the abos like me then you would truly know about all them problems first hand, how many such marriages survived and the kids who were left behind ?

Even my mum came from the other side of the world, was that good, no it was not good, it was a pain for all concerned and caused a lot of problems.

People nowadays sadly think themselves all knowing, not to mention so stuck up by looking down their nose at people in the past, one has to comprehend the times, dealing with such was not like it is today at all and it was not because of prejudice, it was because of reality and them people back in the days sure were dealing with reality because they had to, not like nowadays where people are or can be off with the pixies and nothing matters.

Not to mention that the Abos did not want other cultures bastardising there way of life, so they did not want such mixing and they had there way of picking the best people to have children, it was not up to who liked who at all as the elders picked who was best and other out siders were not welcome, not to mention that the half cast did not get along well with the true abo people and cause much troubles in the community's back in them days.

If we had a system like nowadays back in them days the nation would of fallen to pieces. not to mention the church had it's hands full as it was dealing with all such children as it was, so they did not look up to derelicts at all, who did not take Marriage seriously.
sgo Offline
#18 Posted : Monday, 18 September 2017 8:44:34 AM(UTC)
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I am obligated to post this.

In the course of my weekend prayers God spoke to me.

"He reminded me that we are all created in His likeness and all equal in his eye.
He would have us treat each other's as equals as this is the way He views us all.
To not adhere to this is to propogate the seed of the devil."


I can only say this is the path I choose to follow, and perhaps those with more radical opinions should review their position in light of Gods true message.
wannabe51 Offline
#19 Posted : Monday, 18 September 2017 3:50:38 PM(UTC)
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Thank you Sgo, well said.
gm5735 Offline
#20 Posted : Wednesday, 20 September 2017 10:59:46 AM(UTC)
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I wonder if anyone else watched Q&A last night, when this subject came up?
Even allowing for the usual ABC bias in panel structure, it was fairly obvious from the overall derision, scoffing and intolerance that one side of the debate was demanding respect, while offering little.
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