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justgm Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 21 August 2019 7:08:00 PM(UTC)
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Hi All, I have my parents VH6 with 139000km .It never has had a timing gear . With not much use for the last 15 years, and now we need to go on a bit of a trip in October to a wedding anniversary for which it was used as a wedding car 30 years ago . I would like to replace the timing gear , but do I do fibre or alloy ? Thanks Mark.
life is good in "Wine & Holden Marlborough "
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 21 August 2019 8:15:20 PM(UTC)
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Buy a new set, crank and alloy cam gear. They can get noisy with old crank gear and new cam gear.
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garry fielding Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 21 August 2019 8:49:19 PM(UTC)
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Even with a new set of gears if you go for a alloy cam gear it will be noisy . But the slight noise is better than a stripped fibre gear in the middle of nowhere , believe I have been there .
castellan Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 22 August 2019 11:57:24 AM(UTC)
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Had a HR Holden do 250,000 miles on the stock fibre gear with no problem at all and driven real hard, but my sisters HK 186 did only about 65,000 miles and was driven easy by an old dude.
I think that the ones that fail are maybe not lined up spot on, as in that the camshaft is not in line truly, maybe ? as I have come across some that chew them gears up all the time with not much mileage.
It's bugger all degree that the cam location can be out, but maybe that's all that it takes.

Many camshafts are not truly in line in the block as the block has been machined just a tad out of line, on many Ford Cleveland V8 they can be out 12 deg from front to back in timing and that's why some engines are lacking performance over another same car from new.

Did the 161 S and 186 S get the fibre gear, I think that they did and they have stronger valve springs and I think even the XU-I had the same fibre gear.

I think that the alloy gear only came out about in 1980 maybe with the Blue motor, but I don't think that they make any more noise to bother with.
only the straight cut make a hell of a noise.

Or maybe it's bad harmonics that does hammer them.
commodorenut Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 22 August 2019 8:31:31 PM(UTC)
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Fibre gear ran thru blue & black 6s too. Had a few fail in the 90s when I owned close to dozen over a 5 year period, yet my old man had a VK that did 360,000km on it's original one.
About 50% of the blue & black 6s I stripped down in the 90's either had an aftermarket alloy gear already fitted, or the fibre original was worn to the point they would soon fail.

As Byron noted, get the 2-gear set, making sure they're helical cut, and you'll barely hear the increase in noise.
It's the straight cut gears that whine like the neighbour's kids stuck in the back seat. You don't want them unless you're after the street poser sound these days.
Cheers,

Mick
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garry fielding Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 22 August 2019 10:52:31 PM(UTC)
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As an old Holden mechanic I have never seen a straight cut spur type camshaft gear . They are all helical . The XU1 came out from the factory with the alloy gear . I was told at the time that noise doe's not matter when you are going racing . I don't know about all your black and blue motors as they were just coming out as I got out . But I know one thing , they were all crap compared to a pre ADR27 red motor , either six or eight cylinder . HJ was the last , it only had the charcoal canister . But back to the cam gears , the fibre gear did a wonderful job , it was tough and durable , I guess like modern cam belts and probably should have been replaced in the same time frame . But metal to metal gears will give a little more noise , nothing disconcerting even if you are a street poser ?
commodorenut Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, 23 August 2019 11:03:25 PM(UTC)
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The straight cut gears were aftermarket - and very popular in the 80s through to the mid 90s on red & even blue 6s. Several of my school mates drove LC & LJ toranas with them fitted.
It seemed like I was the odd one out for not liking the harsh sound they produced.

I remember one guy running the "top cog" V-belt on his alt/crank/water pump pulley, and fitting a piece of bent metal to rub on the back of that belt to recreate the sound.
Yep, completely stupid thing to do (and he had to replace that belt regularly) but that's how popular the noise was.


I have to disagree with your take on red/blue/black though /quote "I don't know about all your black and blue motors as they were just coming out as I got out . But I know one thing , they were all crap compared to a pre ADR27 red motor , either six or eight cylinder "
I'd have a black EFI 6 over any of the reds, even the XU1. They were a damn good final incarnation of the Holden 6.
And the black V8 (well, the red painted black one) was the most powerful carby Holden V8 to be factory fitted to a production car by Holden (thus ruling out things like HDT strokers etc fitted after production).
You also can't forget the 5000 homologation 304s in the '85 VK - factory B-cast heads and all the good bits. Almost an L34, but readily available to the public in SL, Berlina and Calais, but only with the M21 behind it.
Cheers,

Mick
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castellan Offline
#8 Posted : Saturday, 24 August 2019 1:28:03 PM(UTC)
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I would have to say that when the blue 3.3L came out, it would flog any stock 186S.

Can't say that I was impressed with any ADR27A on Holden V8 carby powered truly. bar Group 3 and Group A.

But bitterly disappointed in many ADR27A 308's that were total slugs, I think that the dizzy must of not been advancing at all. you are suppose to put a few drops of oil on the pad on top so as to oil the mechanical advance system or they can gammy up. I believe that most mechanics never even bothered to service them at all.

I only knew of one mechanic that would strip a dizzy down in a service.

I have seen one that was rusted up on the mechanical advance that it could not move.

And I had one dickhead dyno tune wanker that did not know that my vacuum advance was Roo Ted, I took it back time and time again as I was working 7 days a week I did not have time to look at it my self as I left in the dark and got home in the dark and had no shed.
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