The Victorian system multiplies the normal rego x 90/365, so on a per day basis it's the same as normal rego, with a few extra costs.
If you insure with someone like Shannons, however, the cost for a car on club rego can be half that of full rego.

What's the deal with the NSW system?

Oh - and to further add to my post above.

1. Don't believe everything you read on facebook. It seems to be where most of the rumours & untrue info is coming from.

2. The RMS site is being updated regularly, so check back every now & then.

3. If you have a true classic/historic car in close to original condition, you will have no problems on the 60 day trial, as long as you find a suitable club.

4. I am involved in several clubs, all of which have signed up for the trial. Within those clubs, and others that friends are in, there's talk of rule/bylaw changes to make it compulsory for all club rego participants to attend at least a few events or meetings per year, to prevent the hit & run mentality of people only in it for themselves.

5. As the club reg person in one club, I have assisted several guys to switch from club reg to logbooks - it's very easy to do (but you must be on that clubs regular club reg first - even if it's only for 3 minutes while you're at the counter at the RMS) and this is then "converted" into the logbook (log sheet really) rego.

6. I have a car (my wife's) going onto the scheme next week, as I believe it's the best option for her car, and the usage it gets. In saying that, it only came out 3 times last year, (on full rego), and 2 of those occasions were club events.


If you need a walk-thru on how to go about it, I can help you. The first step you need to take is to find a club on the RMS list, call up the contact, ask about how they handle new members & club reg, and go from there. The reason I say that, is because I have been fielding calls from guys who are being told by some clubs there's a 6 month waiting period before a new member can get club reg with them. In the clubs I'm in, there's no such issue - but just something to be aware of.

That's not the case. All cars on NSW HCRS (Historic Concessional Rego Scheme) must use H plates, the original plates can only be used for normal rego.

Like commodorenut, I too am involved in the NSW club plate (HCRS) system & 100% agree with his comments.

Dr Terry

I wasn't aware that Victoria had 3 schemes. I know about street rods, but what is the difference between 'modified' rego & 'historic' rego ?

In NSW we have a little known scheme, loosely called rally rego, where very limited use is granted to rally type cars to enable them to be driven between stages of rallies. You usually see it used for imported factory team rally cars, which would not be eligible for any other form of rego.

Also, as I understand it you can't use original number plates on HCRS in NSW.

There is however another scheme for modified cars due this year, which may allow this. Time will tell.

Dr Terry

Sorry my information regarding keeping the cars original plates is incorrect.

I just watched Duncan Gay announcing it, in which he says they will be on H plates.

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.a...oric-vehicles/video.html

Edited by user Friday, 15 January 2016 3:28:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

So your 'historic' plates are the CH ones, right ?

I think most of the 'rorting' that we see from afar are the many full-on racecars with CH rego plates.

You mention the age categories, what is the difference in requirements between those in the 1949-68 group & the 1969 onwards group.

In NSW street rods must be pre-1949, but normal H-plated cars can be any age over 30 years of age.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Thursday, 14 January 2016 1:26:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HGV8 - it was around 1996 when NSW introduced the H plates, and that's when you could no longer use your existing plates (prior to that historics were mostly on regular plates).


As far as the Vicroads abuse, it is very much a big problem, and one that had the NSW RMS very concerned about repeating in NSW.

There are numerous cars running around on VIC "CH" plates with blowers hanging out the bonnet, engine conversions that would require engineering, and other wild modifications that would not pass even when on full rego. You only have to see how many of them are plastered all over Facebook, and how many turned up at Summernats.....
If VIC had annual roadworthy inspections like NSW, then yes, these sorts of ineligible cars would be weeded out, but many of them are hiding in the depths of the club reg scheme and slip by the authorities.

You also have individuals on VIC offering (via Facebook posts) to register "anything" sight unseen, for a fee.... One such club was the "<insert lower-class suburb name> cruisers club" where anything over 25 years old was welcome in "their" club - which was run by a sole individual. He just wanted $150 to "pass" anything, and $50/year membership - which went into his own pocket.

During discussions about implementing a trial in NSW, we were given figures of "in excess of 100% growth" in the number of club reg'd vehicles in VIC when they introduced log books.

In one of the meetings, it was quoted that the NSW RMS had asked VICroads for a copy of an audit they'd performed on CH plated cars, which showed, and I quote "a large percentage did not fit the definition of a historic vehicle"

The NSW RMS were very cautious about any new scheme, due to what was clear to see happening in VIC, hence the report referred to above. Vicroads have since tightened the scheme up slightly, but there's still a long way to go to clean it right up. Unfortunately a lot of people in VIC on the logbook scheme seem to think wild modifications are normal, and totally acceptable - they have become conditioned to it, and it's this false "normality" that makes people think the NSW scheme is so tough.

This is why the NSW RMS are so keen to keep it clean from the start. Especially making it so only legitimate clubs can be a part of it, which is also important to ensuring the success of the trial. Last thing we want in NSW is a repeat of the abuse, and the trial resulting in a cancellation of the proposed logbook scheme.

There's media stories on the VICroads scheme too, like this one:
http://www.heraldsun.com...-fnpp4dl6-1227581917239


But a significant portion of the abuse is not even modified cars, or hoons. Grey nomads are buying rusty old campers >25 years old, putting them on club reg, and running interstate for months at a time. They may only "move" the vehicle every few days, so a 90 day logbook can see them complete a year's travels without ever being in their home state.

I think a fair chunk of those issues in VIC could be avoided by increasing the age of the cutoff. In NSW it's 30 years, which almost puts us back into an era of cars that are now too expensive to be attractive to the majority of the young hoon mentality. As the cars get older, it becomes the true enthusiasts who own them (and can afford to own them) as the younger crowd move onto newer models. Look at the money a stock 70s Falcon is pulling now - even XC sedans are seeing $15K. Early Commodores (eligible in NSW) are going the same way. But in VIC, you can put a 1990 VN on club reg. And most of them are <$1000 for a V6 example.

Mick,

You make some very good points. I wonder if you have seen the current requirements, which came into force on Jan 31 2015?

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/...eme-from-31-january-2015

I don't want to get into a VIC vs NSW argument, as it is pointless and counter productive, and we will never agree anyway.
Like Frank, I don't use the club registration scheme personally, so have no particular axe to grind, apart from disliking seeing it abused.

Most of the issues you mention have been addressed already, and if you talk to real club members in Victoria (as opposed to Facebook, or those forums where few words contain more than four letters) you will find that the scrutiny by Vicroads and by the police has increased enormously. Some of this is due to articles in the press, and a lot due to pressure by car clubs and the AOMC who recognise that the feral minority will wreck the scheme for legitimate users.

As you note, some of the aforementioned feral minority regarded the scheme as cheap registration with no RWC requirements.
VSI33 now defines precisely what is required, for licensed roadworthy testers, the police, and the users of the system.
I disagree with your comment that the scheme has been "tightened up slightly". It is as robust as the normal registration scheme. The wild modifications with out VASS certification you mention are no more permissible under club registration than under full registration, and never have been, it's just that now there is no grey area at all.

As for 12 monthly RWC tests for vehicles over 3 years old, personally I see the sense in it, the motor trade love it, but no Victorian state government has as yet had the will to pursue it. Particularly as the RACV has been very vocal in their disapproval and the voting majority seem to oppose it.

25 or 30 years - I don't see how this will really make much difference - is a VL turbo more appropriate and somehow less attainable than a VN? Not really.

I think you will find the fly by nighters have been sprung and dealt with, probably as a result of being dobbed in by legitimate car club members. We are aware that the fringe dwellers could jeopardise the entire scheme and the majority will suffer the consequences.

Previously many cars were transferred to club registration without an RWC. This loophole has now been eliminated.
As I conceded earlier, unfortunately there are cars which need to be dealt with as a legacy of the previous more relaxed rules, but I know they are on borrowed time, from Vicroads, from the police and from the clubs themselves. Regardless of what plates are on the car, beyond certain modifications all cars in Victoria have to comply with the same requirements.

I haven't seen much on the NSW scheme, apart from the flowery political announcement in the link posted earlier, which was big on rhetoric and short on detail.
How, for example, will the NSW scheme prevent the grey nomads you mention registering their rusty VW Kombi or Hi Ace, and how does it improve on the existing Vicroads arrangements? (Apart from not suffering the legacy vehicles).

If there are variations in the NSW scheme which are an improvement I would personally like to see the requirements harmonised between the states.

The reality in Victoria is that any car can be modified after the initial RWC is issued, as there are no annual inspections. It is only when a car changes hands and the registration is transferred that a RWC is mandatory. At least now when a car is transferred to CH registration a RWC is required, and in this way the rules for CH plates are more stringent than those for normal registration.

The "M" plates were adopted for the very reason you mention - to transition cars from CH plates where they are not appropriate. The scheme is designed for limited use vehicles and it is reasonable that vehicles modified beyond VSI33, such as the early model
Holden you mention, which still meet the age criteria are provided for. I don't think the existing or proposed NSW scheme allows for that.

That's the problem with the term "Classic". What you or I regard as classic will differ. The same applies to the term "true enthusiast" and any number of other value judgements you or I might make. I'm sure at least some of the members of the Magna owners club regard their vehicles as classics, and regard themselves as enthusiasts.
My choice of a VL turbo as an example, while mischievous, is an example of trying to cherry pick a particular make or model to demonstrate what should or shouldn't qualify. Is a base model VN excluded, but a VN Clubsport OK, based on the cost and the kind of owner? I don't think it is reasonable to leave that choice in the hands of the car clubs either, as there will be inherent bias. The only reasonable and fair method is the age of the car, and no matter what age you choose there will be, by some ones definition, aberrations.

The scheme isn't just about Holdens or Fords, or what the cost of the car is, and I don't see how there is room for value judgements in the process. I'm sure many owners of a 15 year old Ferrari or Lamborghini regard their cars as "classics".
This issue comes up often in Historic racing, and creates much unpleasantness.

As far as Facebook goes, it was mentioned by way of example. I do use it, but sometimes feel like I've just donated 10 IQ points to Mark Zuckerberg, however if it's examples of aberrant behaviour you are looking for, then Facebook and Summernats couldn't have been better chosen.

The recent Vicroads changes were not done by faceless bureaucrats operating in isolation, by the way. Many of the larger car clubs and associations were heavily involved, and to some extent initiated the changes.
None of which excuses the initial scheme which, although innovative, was flawed and open to abuse.

As far as the trial NSW published rules go:

1/ Liability insurance is not stipulated by RMS, but incorporation or company status is. Vicroads ask for the incorporation status of the applicant club, but do not stipulate it as a requirement. The implication is that they would view unincorporated clubs with suspicion.

2/ Annual RWC checks are a requirement for all NSW vehicles, I believe. Your trial scheme seems to be less stringent than normal NSW registration, allowing clubs to do the RWC after a qualifying period. I'm not saying its wrong, but it is open to bias, and I can well understand why some clubs choose not to do it themselves.
Vicroads is bound by the lack of annual roadworthy requirement in Victoria, so would struggle to mandate it for CH registration. Some of my NSW colleagues tell me the NSW system is quite corrupt, but it's probably still better than what we have here.
Quite a few clubs here, usually the more reputable ones, do an annual inspection of vehicles before renewing club registration, and I think this should become mandatory.

3/ The same system for older cars exists here, but it is stipulated as pre 1949. As you note, your average RWC tester would struggle with the concept of mechanical brakes, friction shock absorbers, unusual numbers of pedals, (and even the lack of rear seat belts on pre 1973 cars....)

4/ The same warnings of dire consequences have been given in writing to registered clubs by Vicroads, when the changes were introduced in Jan 2015. The clubs I'm involved with take them seriously, but it remains to be seen if all clubs do.

One thing Vicroads do require is 6 photographs of vehicles applying for club reg to be taken and retained on record by the club, to be produced on demand by Vicroads. I believe this is also a requirement for the normal RWC process. This seems like a good way to document at least some changes to vehicles after club registration is granted.
I couldn't find a similar requirement in the NSW trial scheme.

I guess it remains to be seen how the NSW trial goes. I hope for your sake the abusers don't wreck it completely, but without the "M" plate registration I think there will be problems as we had/have here.

The best way to explain is to use the Vicroads words directly:


"New requirements commencing 31 January 2015:
•When signing new club permit applications, club safety officers/scrutineers will be required to complete a Vehicle Eligibility and Standards Declaration form declaring that the vehicle is eligible, safe for use on the road and that it meets the applicable requirements for the category of vehicle for which the club permit is sought.
•Initial club permit applications (not renewals) for vehicles manufactured after 31 December 1948 will need to be accompanied by a current certificate of roadworthiness.
•Initial club permit applications (not renewals) will need to be accompanied with a document of proof of ownership or management of the vehicle.
•For pre-1949 vehicles, clubs will continue to conduct their own safety inspection (which may be a certificate of roadworthiness or a club safety inspection based on VicRoads’ guidelines).
•New modification guidelines specified in the Guidelines for modifications to vehicles operated under Victoria’s Club Permit – Vehicle Standards Information No. 33 (VSI33) [PDF 296 kb] apply.
•If an initial club permit application is submitted for a vehicle that is modified outside of the appropriate modification guidelines, a Vehicle Assessment Signatory Scheme (VASS) approval certificate covering the modifications must be provided with the permit application.
•An “M” club permit plate will be issued to identify modified vehicles where a VASS certificate has been provided.
•Clubs are required to maintain dated photographs of vehicles entering the club permit scheme in accordance with the new Club Permit Agreement."

In essence the vehicles for which a club permit has been sought, for limited use and log booked, and fall outside VSI33 need a VASS engineering assessment, and when this is submitted the vehicles are allocated an "M" plate.

I think this is an attempt to address the controversy associated with modified vehicles seen to be outside the spirit, and now the letter of the law, of the CH plate scheme and to enable these vehicles to have a limited use registration of some kind. It also paints a back door for the existing vehicles which are on the scheme by fait accompli. It seems many of these ended up with a CH plate without an RWC inspection.

It also provides clarity for the police about what is and is not allowable on CH plates.