HT 80837

Original motor is long gone but have been told that was a 308.......In saying that,what are the tell tale signs that the car was built as a 308 or 253???

Car has Saginaw hump and has hump in rear floor and holes in the rear wheel arch that indicates tramp rods were once there.

Thanks for any input.

HT is pretty easy for GTS. 10-bolt rear axle hump is 307 or 308 and up. Banjo on V8 GTS means 253. Picking the gearbox on a V8 GTS is easy too, only the three options and the Saginaw linkage clearance hump gives you the manual. Trimatic and Powerglide you pick by the speedo cable hole. The rarest combination (ignoring the 1 known 307 manual) is probably a toss up between 308 manual and 307 (auto only), probably both close GTS350 in build numbers or less for either one. All assuming the body and tags are original together and unmodified.

Edited by user Monday, 29 February 2016 8:26:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Probably the slops/slush black paint used had a large amount of green in it when it was painted. It can vary. GTS was meant to be gloss Warrigal, but I and others have seen some of them in slops/slush black on the firewall.

Edited by user Tuesday, 1 March 2016 9:30:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Tuxedo fixed to Warrigal

Correct, Warrigal. I should never type in a hurry! Too many hours spent on Sandman text has Tuxedo ingrained into my head. I've edited the prior post to fix it.
I'd also have thought Geoff you'd find body dip black under the red oxide. Same cr@p that Dandenong body tags get covered with.
What must have been somewhat embarrassing for salesmen was when you opened the bonnet on some cars and had slush black on the firewall and satin/semigloss black on the inner guards and radiator support. I've seen lots of HQ's like this. Also seen them with gloss body colour firewalls and slush or stain black on the inner guards and radiator support. Must have been a nightmare for dealerships when you had a combination of Pagewood, Dandenong and Elizabeth and sometime Acacia Ridge assembled vehicles all side by side at a dealership with different under bonnet treatments, and throw into the mix vans and tonners with Pagewood or Dandenong assembly plant paint but Elizabeth firewall paint treatment.

Edited by user Tuesday, 1 March 2016 9:36:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Byron, I couldn't agree more. There are lots of variations. Only GTS and Brougham (so called "Premium models") were supposed to get the gloss black treatment, but I've seen it on Premiers as well.


One day I'll start a new thread for this. One day.

I don't think HKTG were dipped at all. I've discussed this with Ben, and he isn't sure either. We know at least some HQs were, from this photo:



Which explains why the cowls rust so comprehensively, above the high tide mark.

The HKTG paint spec, as told to me by Ben is:

1/ Black etch primer over all the bare steel on the entire body shell.
2/ Red oxide primer over the black etch
3/ Body colour acrylic lacquer over the red oxide
4/ Black primer (375-1690) or black acrylic lacquer (599-5285) on the undersides of the wheelhouses, and mostly the underside of the car.
5/ Black acrylic lacquer (599-5285) on the firewall - except for GTS and Brougham and maybe Premier
6/ Black acrylic lacquer (599-5285) on the front subframe,
7/ Black acrylic lacquer (599-5285) on the front fender undersides,
8/ Warrigal Black acrylic lacquer in engine compartment and firewall for GTS, Brougham and maybe Premier.
This lacquer is gloss by definition, but was baked and not buffed, which is why the finish varies in gloss level so much.

Here's a photo of a partial strip of the front spring hanger from a Dandenong Verdoro Green HT, almost the lowest point of the body shell:



You can quite clearly see the layers, exactly as described in the spec. I see no evidence of a dipping process. There are also many semi open box sections on the underside of the car which have no evidence of paint inside them. Presumably if they were dipped there would be some.
What I have seen slathered around the shell is the seam sealer - Elastite, which is a sticky black caulking compound full of asbestos. It looks like it has been applied with a trowel.

Edited by user Tuesday, 1 March 2016 10:54:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Yes, and the design of the HKTG creates a vulnerable pocket with no drain hole for when the quarter windows inevitably leak, rotting out the rear or the floor pan, and the front of the inner fender, and then the sill and rear quarter. Not to mention the wadding under the quarter window.

You will notice that Holden made a big deal about dipping the body shell in the HQ Sales literature below.
Happy to be proved wrong, but I think this is the first time Holden made any mention of a dipping process.

At that time there was considerable pressure on the manufacturers in the US regarding lack of corrosion protection, as part of Ralph Naders' next onslaught after the grandstanding over the Corvair issues.

Perhaps that influenced the GMH emphasis.

No. Some Aussie assembled HQ had gloss body colour on the firewalls. From memory Pagewood and Dandenong for an approx. 12 month period ending mid-ish 1974. I have plenty of photos of Survivor cars and tried to nail it down in the past but never went too far with it.

Sorry mate, I thought you were replying to my mention of coloured paint in post 7, my bad. Carry on.

Edited by user Tuesday, 1 March 2016 8:16:35 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

......Car has been confirmed as a factory 308 4 speed car with 10 bolt diff.......engine by was black as per factory...all tags are on the car and all look above board....

http://www.ebay.com.au/i...3D6%26sd%3D222033246139

Like this one?