Sometimes Ford got the jump though - as an example, they beat Commodore to standard 4-wheel discs (VN) by putting them on the XF update.

Holden also responded too - like the mid-model update to the VH SL to counter the increased equipment (standard cloth seats) on the XE GL when it was released.

The 80s saw a lot of "tit for tat" updates, and the buyers were the ultimate winners. I'm sure the 70s was the same.

The 90s became about electronics - the race for ABS, Airbags, remote central locking, anti-theft systems etc. When you look at some of Ford's updates, they coincide with Holden release dates for new models, and vice-versa.

This even continued into the 2000s. Ford's IRS (excluding the rather rare AU option) took a long time coming compared to Holden (intro in '91, and standard on all with except ute with the '97 VT) but the BA sedan and Territory's standard IRS it's arguably a far superior system to the Opel-inspired Holden system that ran to the end of VZ. Then the VE's IRS module leapfrogged the Ford unit yet again, with far superior wear rates on the bushes (and the only criticisms of it come from high HP ab-users).

This is why I've always maintained a balanced view of "Ford vs Holden" instead of the typical one-eyed narrow view - because without the advances made by one, the other wouldn't have had to work as hard to improve their model.

Both IRS systems were designed in-house in Australia by the respective company engineers.

I think the Territory is one of Australia's greatest engineering feats - they managed to build a comfortable "SUV" with the option of AWD, using many of the BA (and later on FG) existing components, all done on a shoestring budget. Arguably (on a technical basis) more successful than Holden's Adventra, which had a similar level of detail in the driveline, but was masked in a body too similar to a jacked-up wagon. The Territory sales over its 12 year lifespan (despite dropping off in later years) is proof of that success.

With the way the aftermarket are involved in development, it would be no surprise if a lot of the "insider" trading was done at Tier level suppliers.
"Hey Mr Ford, we've just developed this new gadget for Holden, would you like to buy it off us for the next Falcon?"

Not suggesting these guys for a minute, but Bosch is a good example of a supplier to multiple brands, where their R&D has had benefits for many of them.
Hella would be another in that respect with lighting developments. Even the likes of Sumitomo/Yazaki with developments in wiring loom efficiencies.

My XT vs HK comparison centred around option availability, not whether one car had a 2-sp & the other had a 3-sp.

With the HK, you could order bucket seats, centre console, 4-sp floor shift, T-bar auto, sports instruments, power windows, factory air con, etc. etc. on a Kingswood. To my knowledge you couldn't get any of these on an XT Falcon or Fairmont.

Ford caught up with a very similar option scheme with the XW, one year later.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Friday, 30 December 2016 3:41:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

Just to clarify. I wasn't talking about power tailgates, Ford had it XM & Holden got it in HD, again not far apart.

I was talking about 4 door power windows.

I would be checking your sources. My statement was :- "With the HK, you could order bucket seats, centre console, 4-sp floor shift, T-bar auto, sports instruments, power windows, factory air con, etc. etc. on a Kingswood. To my knowledge you couldn't get any of these on an XT Falcon or Fairmont."

There was error in that, buckets were standard for Fairmont, but you couldn't option any of the other stuff.

There was no bucket seat or 4-sp option in XR 500 ute. To get a 4-sp, T-bar auto or sports instruments, prior to XW you had to buy a GT.

There was no factory-fitted air (optional or otherwise) before XW.

Yes, the XW/XY air con was fully integrated, whereas the HK/HT/HG was an under dash unit, but I can can tell from 40 years in the car air con game, the cooling performance of the Frigidaire unit killed the Ford air con.

What was wrong with the sports instruments in HK, it had 4 minor gauges, versus Ford's 3 & were easy to read. OK, the floor mounted taco was an afterthought, but was well remedied with the HT set-up.

Dr Terry

In march of 1974 I ordered a HQ Panelvan. The salesman was on my side with the options list so I ticked 350/4speed, monaro interior such as steering wheel, bucket seats, dash etc, in black, with matching door trims, floor mats, superlift shocks and sunburst paint. They came back to me about 2 weeks later to say that the 350 was reserved for the monaro and statesman so I could only have the 308 and 4 speed box. I asked and was declined! It was $4,400 registered and insured at July 1974 when it arrived. I had $1,100 deposit and my father was going guarantor as I was only 18. I was advised by friends to get an NRMA inspection as the build quality was crap on commercials and there were numerous 'faults' such as paint buffed off over the rear wheel arches, scratches below both door locks and even the front wheel bearings were not adjusted properly! I asked for the necessary 'adjustments to be made and the paint to be rectified and they assured me it would be 'fixed'. I went back every second day for a couple of weeks and in the end I said I would take it and rectify the paint myself as I had panel beater mates. They then said my finance was not approved so I couldn't take delivery. I told them to shove their dealership where the sun doesn't shine and went out and paid cash for a DT 360 Yamaha. The Van had been registered in my fathers name as the salesman showed me the rego papers. Rego number was NSW GXB354. I saw the Van about 6 months later while driving with a mate in the car and he said he knew who the owner was. He later told me the owner bought the Van second hand for $4,900 as it was 'back traded' with 'delivery miles' only on it because the buyer changed his mind after purchase. Second hand Vans were selling for more than a new one as Holden couldn't keep up with demand, just like the release of the 48 215..... And my Van was ordered before the Sandman was released. Where is it now? The dealer was Sturgess Hall at Auburn. They closed down years ago!
Cheers,
Ron

I am sure I have seen a XR 289 V8 ute with buckets in a new advertisement on line, I can't remember the name of it now, but it shows a lot of pictures of cars.

I just don't like the long speedo's on any car and I like the XR=T GT set up much better with a tacho in the correct spot and with the setup of the rest, my first recollection was sitting in a new Gold XR GT that a friend of my Dads had and all that chrome work, just look at the steering wheel as well.

The windows on the HK-T-G did not need power as they were easy as to use, I can't say the same about the HQ on were rubbish to use. I just thought the Falcons had P/W option I was wrong, only from the XA did they come with that option.
I must of thought they had P/W because one of Dads mates had a 302 XW Fairmont wagon with P/W, but he must of fitted it all himself, what a car that is! and he still as it and he bought that when it was 2 years old and back in 1974 he even had a TV in it and a police siren and dropped in a worked 351W and it had T bar with bucket seats.

All the ZC Fairlane that came with 351's were 351 Windsor, but for the last 2 months as they ran out and put 351C from then on, but the XW GT and GT-HO went Cleveland from March 1970.

I remember a mates mum's ZB Fairlane had air con box under the dash type.
Far as I know most people oped to go for aftermarket air con because of the cost genuine was a joke, even I went for a non genuine in a new 1992 car.

Early Holden air con may of been a factory air, under the dash type but the company that made them was here I believe and may of sold most as an aftermarket thing.
My 253 HG premier had that type of air con and sure it could get cold, but I was never fussed on them types.
The compressors must of been all the same type from what I remember, it's just like the ones the last XE V8's had, the old crap piston type. at least Holden went better with that black cylinder type from about the HJ I think.

AFAIK Ford offered power windows in the XW/ZD range for the South African market. If you have a copy of the factory XW/ZD workshop manual, look in the wiring diagram section, the circuit for the power windows is shown.

I've never seen power windows in an Aussie XW or ZD.

Dr Terry

Yep that's where I have seen them, just like on old mates wagon, the price they must of payed for them cars over their, maybe why, or they came across as a more posh car as what they are here.

Yes, the York compressor came either black or alloy (silver) finish, although the factory Ford Yorks were always black.

Holden never used Yorks from the factory, because they had access to the better A6 unit which was made by an 'in-house' GM owned division (Frigidaire or Harrison, depending on the era).

The York noise drama was more a problem caused by badly designed aftermarket mount kits, which had the belt run at odd lengths between pulleys. Sure it was exacerbated by the design deficiencies of the 2-cyl unit, but the factory Ford systems had well designed mount drives & were relatively noise & vibration free as long as the belt tension was correct.

Chrysler Aust. used a similar compressor 2-cyl made by Tecumseh & it too suffered these dramas. The 'rotary' style compressors, like the GM A6 & the smaller Sankyo/Sanden compressors suffered far less from this issue, because of their multi-cylinder design.

Dr Terry