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wbute Offline
#21 Posted : Thursday, 25 May 2017 10:09:01 PM(UTC)
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Car companies are like any business. You don't make too much money by looking back and admiring what you made in the past. There's only one way forward. That's not by cataloging 3 million cars you built twenty plus years ago. I really don't understand why they even still have the records really.
RigPig Offline
#22 Posted : Thursday, 25 May 2017 10:42:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tour Director Go to Quoted Post
Rig Pig the idea of someone going through the records and making a decision sounds good. But the reality is that they don't have too many that have been there longer than 10 years that are capable with knowledge or interest. It would appear to be a dead end job for anyone allocated to do the work. They gradually paid off ALL the long termers and those who cared so the payout when they close is significantly reduced. You also have the fact that half the drawing files etc. were on Microfiche so the capability of reading them depends on having firstly a machine that works and secondly the time it takes to sort out the cards. Having used their equipment for many years I know how difficult it is.


You're right current employees would never have the time to look at the old documentation and photos in the archive and they wouldnt know what they're looking at anyway.
Thats why retirees are involved along with an archiving company.
A mate of mine worked there for over 40-years and is very active with making sure no history is lost.
GMH requested their assistance.
HK1837 Offline
#23 Posted : Friday, 26 May 2017 9:09:24 AM(UTC)
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It is a SH!TLOAD of work to get info off the microfiche to Excel, and then it is only some data you will get. For a lot of cars no engine number is recorded, apart from LH-LX you cannot predict chassis number and the body number off Elizabeth vehicles until about 8/77 and on Pagewood and Dandenong and Acacia Ridge at various times into HQ had a body number that does not equal the PSN numerical component. There is also no colour or trim info. And the coding used to describe the vehicles' mechanical build configuration (BETSBAC) is not a simple, straight forward system - it is much more complicated than just about everyone realises. So by simply having a database gleaned from microfiche records really is of limited use for researchers, as you also have to have 1000's of vehicles recorded off actual ID plates and know what the car actually was (eg records say 8N80 for a HJ ute, they don't tell you it was a Sandman - you need to know that to make sense of the coding), and then you have a chance of understanding what the 'fiche records tell you. Then there are the cars that do not appear in the microfiche report for various reasons. On top of that you have to understand implicitly what data went into the IBM360 and when, and how it was entered, as the 'fiche records are full of human data entry errors, and you have to think laterally most of the time and not take the data as gospel. Certain XU1 spruikers have been caught with their pants down a few times due to treating the records as 100% accurate.
Believe me, I've done all this and know how hard it is. I've transcribed all Dandenong HZ off the 'fiche, and it took like 3 weeks for about 600 cars. I've tried high res searchable pdf - doesn't work. I have all 151 XU1's in the records built post the appearance of the 150 list engines, in Excel. There are at least 5 in there with data entry errors in their engine numbers, again certain people essentially have egg on their faces in print as they have miraculously found some of these data entry engines? The work it takes to transcribe this data out you cannot comprehend until you do it. And as Warren says in a prior post, who the hell is going to be silly enough to bother to do this for anything other than the pinnacle cars ie 350 HQ's, XU1, L34 and A9X? No-one has the hours of life to waste looking for high volume stuff like SLR5000, GTS sedan etc let alone anything else. And in the end the existing microfiche records are incomplete: no HZ past just prior to VB Commodore, no HQ from Elizabeth past June 1974. Plus all the cars not in the report as it is a Service/Warranty report and for various reasons some cars never made it into the original printout.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
RigPig Offline
#24 Posted : Friday, 26 May 2017 11:07:17 PM(UTC)
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Yep we all agree no one will be firing up an IBM360 or a microfiche reader any time soon.

I'll just say it again to be clear, there are retirees and document management specialists working out what they have at Fishermans Bend and Elizabeth and deciding what they're going to do with it all.
How to store it correctly, what to keep, what to throw out.

No one will be creating spread sheets for us.

Bugger the lists, I want engineering drawings.
HK1837 Offline
#25 Posted : Saturday, 27 May 2017 6:58:55 AM(UTC)
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Microfiche reader is easy!
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Tour Director Offline
#26 Posted : Sunday, 28 May 2017 9:05:11 AM(UTC)
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I have attended a number of Retiree functions and regularly have a monthly coffee with a group that were from Purchasing and Material supply. Most of them have a minimum 35 years of service each with nearly all starting in the service garage or warehouse. Due to the way many were given retirement packages, redundancy or other they are very much against GMH and anything associated with it. The only value they got was cheaper cars which GMH are now reducing the allowance, so much for their long term loyalty.
The point is that many are enjoying retirement and lost the interest as their daily lifestyle has changed to travelling, grandchildren and their own health. They don't see current management as their friend and prefer to stay well away. Unfortunately these are the people who have the knowledge and capability to know what is worth keeping and sort through the mountains of paperwork.
I even spoke to the man who sold , serviced and installed their microfiche machines and he advised me that the machines they have are well past their UBD and parts are no longer available.
With the drawings they have on microfiche cards it is difficult to consider what is reserved as some are sub-components, some are multiple part numbers and some for export models. Others are parts of panels and others not numbered.
I know that enthusiasts value these records and information they hold but as WBute recognises the hierarchy at GMH today have little interest.
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