So what are you saying here?....So the speculation of the new Aussie draw card to Bathurst is going to be the Crew Cab race.

Ranger..vs Toyate hilux.. vs ..Navara.. vs Amarok.. ect ect....Now that we have no real race cars made here...here we go again alah Ford Sierra Nissan GTR days.

This has over tones of the law fraternity ...I have climbed to the top only top end up at the bottom...LMAO

Yep, all 2.0L of it! I cannot believe how nancy the Australian vehicle market has gone where a Company makes a big song and dance about producing a mardi-gras float with a 2.0T TD engine and people will buy it. I just shake my head sometimes.....

Also suspension and brakes would give advantage today.

I believe the 1991 XR6 is almost as quick around the mountain as the XY GTHO.

Warren

Des West did 2.56.9 in early qualifying for Bathurst 1968, and Nick Petrilli was similar. Both were exceeding 130mph on Conrod. Bruce McPhee qualified late with 2.56.7, must have been a screamer of a lap as Bruce did not have the race pace of the West and Petrilli cars as he had a 3.08 rear axle, where the other two had 3.36. During the race it was clear the 3.36 rear axle was the one to have as West and Brown (23D) pulled away from the rest. The other car on the front row was 23D that also qualified with a sub 3 minute of lap of 2.59.3. The Geoghegan GT on the second row managed 2.59.8. West starting lapping other cars by the end of the 6th lap when he overtook 19D which had problems. There was no other car in sight from Murray's at the end of lap 6 than a GTS327:
http://autopics.com.au/6...otographer-ray-simpson/

The fastest official lap in 1968 by McPhee of 2.58 was not the actual fastest. It was Des West's but all his times were erased from the record in the cover up. I have seen copies of the original time sheets.
All the Holdens ran road tyres in 1968.

In early qualifying Geoghegan pulled off a 2.51.6 on racing rubber, remembering the track was fully resurfaced after the 1968 race. Digby Cooke then did a 2.50.2 on racing rubber. Quickest cars on XAS were Bond with 2.54 and McPhee's GT with 2.55.4. Final qualifying times saw Geoghegan on 2.48.9 (GT race rubber), Cooke (HT race rubber), McPhee 2.51.1 (GT XAS), Bond 2.53.8 (HT XAS). Even 64D (Tuckey, Petralia HT) on row 5 with a time of 2.56.2 on Firestone racing rubber was faster than the 1968 pole. The only showroom stock car in that class in 1969 (49D HT of Sheldon/Holland running the stock GTS350 tyres) did 2.56.5 and qualified on the 6th row of the grid, also faster than the 1968 pole. The fastest officially recorded lap was Geoghegan's 2.52.1, although unofficial records show Brock doing a faster lap.

The 1970 race times show you that the BS hype about the PhaseII being superior to the original GT-HO is just that. The 1969 qualifying times, fastest race lap times and the total race time in 1970 were slower than 1969, despite the 1969 race being stopped for a period before the first lap was completed by the field to clear up Bill Brown's crash. I still believe that if HDT had kept the GTS350 for 1970 rather than switching to the XU1 that a HG may well have won the 1970 race. As it was Don Holland's XU1 in 3rd place was on the same lap as the two ailing XW's that filled the first two places and was rapidly catching them. Magazine articles from reporters who were there state that another few laps and the XU1 would have won. The official record of Holland being a lap down is wrong.

You cannot beat modern technology in engines, brakes, suspension and track surface! Not surprised many modern road cars are quicker than 1960's race cars. I bet not many are quicker than the 1968-72 Group C cars at Bathurst though!

After 1970 I don't think much year to year comparisons can be made as the tyres used were stating to really show up in lap times.

I wasn't aware that the race 1969 race was actually stopped due to the first lap crash. I was always of the belief that they just continued on but observed the flags waved & slowed down in that section of the rack.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Friday, 2 March 2018 9:34:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You are probably right that there was probably not much time that cars were actually stooped dead, but every lap whilst the (from memory) 15 cars were untangled and sorted out was an increase in lap time by a lot of time. The point is 1969 total race time had this included, 1970 total time was slower despite this.

Edited by user Friday, 2 March 2018 9:38:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

I think Holden should have done a 200 car run of L46 powered HG's for the 70 race. M20 Muncie and 12 Bolt to stay within GM Engineering guidlines. The front rotor mass or heat sink as well as the pad area would have still been an issue though.
ABI

Agreed HK....I think some of these old boys are ex Biro Pilots that retire , grab the cheap 4x4 and van and are shite scared of putting their foot in it for the fear of using fuel and lack of ability....We won't get the V6 ....its all about fuel saving here...Yet I did see yesterday two Toyota Tundra's outside Toyota in Beauie...Now thats what I am on next... One was red...It looked magnificent.
Ok....so the Patrol is for a come back....My son inlaw have them in the Force and they DYMO'd "SLUG" on the dash.Good it needs a V8...bloody 4's were useless in them.

This is sort of what Old Man Emu was, a HT GTS350 with 1970 LT1 (370hp with Corvette exhaust manifolds, 360hp with Camaro) engine with M22 Muncie and 12-bolt rear axle. It was to have oil cooled brakes but after a failure at Lang Lang they were consigned to the Hurricane and thus history. The L46 was still 350hp (with Corvette exhaust manifolds) and heavier due to the cast iron intake. The L46 had a weird electronic dizzy with no vacuum advance, I just picked up a 1969 L46 dizzy for the 350 in my HK GTS the other day - no vacuum advance port on it! L46 also had hydraulic cam, LT1 used the old Duntov solid cam from the earlier 60's hipo 327's.

Harry developed a lightweight HG version with GMH for Bathurst 1971 after the Torana failed to win in 1970. There was at least one of these, possibly two of them. This car was 308, HK-HT 6cyl Saginaw (wide ratio with 2.85:1 1st) and 2.55:1 10-bolt plus factory 7" and 8" rims. Harry always talked about a 3spd Saginaw version as well. The surviving car is Silver Mist metallic with black trim and still sports its GMH Engineering tag. It is most likely this is the development car for Harry's L34 engine mods.

I'm not sure the 308 3 speed would have hit the performance goals needed for success in production car racing in a Monaro body, LC Torana yes but not HG. Really the 308 needed to be factory stroked to say 340CI to 360CI and the cyninder heads revised to include a 2.00in intake valve and 1.6 ex valve plus valve timing revisions so peak power arrived at 4800 to 5100RPM with the stroker.
I think the 3 speed would have been too wide between gears for a 5.0L in a HG Monaro body, even with the HT only 2.5 1st gear ratio.

Harry Firth was a Wonder for GM and did a lot for the brand over the decade or so but this exercise would have been difficult I feel.

The LT1 would have been great but as we know GM takes small steps so the hydraulic lifter Qjet fed L46 would have been seamless for dealership servicing and warranty pleasing.

ABI