Description/extras: HSV VP Engineering Senator CC No. PP30: 1992-1997 HSV VR GTS pre production prototype.
L599295 left the Elizabeth SA plant in 1992 as a 3800 (V6) VP Commodore Executive designed for an as yet unnamed private buyer / dealer in the 3135 postcode district of Victoria - Heathmont and Ring-wood East as per a car history report dated 23rd of February 2017 ID #5246118.

This vehicle has a HSV build plate showing the model as ENG.DEVT.SENATOR and build number PP30.
The vendor has the original HSV letter dated 14th of November 1997 from Brad Dunstan, HSV Engineering Manager, to the purchaser Starr Performance Pty Ltd, stating that PP30 was the Engineering Development Prototype for the VR series GTS. Starr Performance was a business associated with HRT at the time. HSV sold PP30 to Peter Starr unregistered and no engine number.
In February 2017, emails and a phone conversation with Brad Dunstan, former HSV head of Engineering, confirmed that this VP Senator was actually the prototype / engineering development vehicle at HSV from 1992 to 1997. He said "She's an old girl - she's one of the very early cars from HSV... that's a genuine Engineering car.. she was a very early prototype that was setup for the VP and then added strut towers etc for the VR setup' Brad told the vendor that PP30 was well known to him and he drove her often during his time at HSV.
Andrew Purcell of HSV cannot find any record of PP30 in HSV archives, although he has informed the vendor that Brad Dunstan's HSV letter of authentication is genuine. Brsad spoke to Andrew and emailed him, following the phone conversation to clarify which vehicle PP30 was and when she was at HSV. The vendor then asked Andrew to have another look into HSV archives but he still came up with nothing. Brad had no further contact with PP30 after she was sold to Starr Performance in 1997 - although he had heard that she was on racks in a wrecking yard in Melbourne sometime after Peter Starr's ownership.

The vendor has an email from Peter Starr stating that PP30 "Was a special build body from GMH being a VP shell with VR floor plan. The spec was full VR GTS running gear... Full VP Senator body kit and interior options. In the late 1997, PP30 was allocated an engine number by Victoria Police - V971614H and then registered in Victoria - OQB-950. Peter Starr has confrimed that he was the owner when this occurred. Peter sold PP30 some time prior to liquidation and winding up of Starr Performance P/L in 2006. Peter does not recall exaclt when it was sold, or the name of the purchaser.

Daniel Grima of Keilor Downs sold PP30 to Scott Liewes of Aspendale Gardens on 4th of April 2008, but he doesn't know when Daniel bought her. Apparently Daniel was associated with a mechanic that worked at Starr Performance. Scott Liewes bought the car from Daniel Grima without a roadworthy certificate. Scott had some work done on the vehicle by Chev's Auto Repairs (Have itemized invoice), obtained roadworthy and then transferred OQB-950 into his name on 9th of July 2008. THe odometer reading at that point was 175,033Km. The vendor has the transfer document to Scott Liewes and a registration renewal notice in his name. A Vic Roads registration check shows that registration for OQB-950 was cancelled on the 17th of November 2012.

PP30 was owned by Scott Liewes until March 2016 when she was handed to the vendor as repayment for a debt they paid off on Scott's behalf.
VIN/Chassis No: 6H8VPK19HPL599295
ENG No: V971614P

https://www.lloydsonline...;smode=0&lid=1551237

I think desirable is subjective. For example.. in my own opinion; A9Xs are overrated...I see nothing more than a Torana hatch with a 308 and rear disc brakes -certainly not what I would call desirable.

And to be honest this VP may possible had a hard life as test mule, but has a very interesting story behind it -far more interesting then some classic Aussie Cars which are owned by 'concourse wankers' who cars live a pampered life.

Some may agree or disagree to what I say, but I find these odd cars far more interesting.

I reckon these types of cars are more interesting than most other collectables, excepting cars with direct race connections. It’s shows in real life how they developed new models/series, that Joe Average never gets to see.
HSV cars are clearly going to become more and more desirable as time goes on, and the more unique or unusual the more they will be wanted. It’s just plain logic.
During the 80’s when I was at high school, only bogans/westies owned Toranas. Sandmans were just another van that was old and outdated, and you wouldn’t have been caught dead in any Chrysler. Times change.

Edited by user Sunday, 19 August 2018 6:48:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Yes & no - depending on the need and use of the mule.

From what I've learnt over the years, the development mules for the next model's driveline, that were made from the current model, often had a VIN from the preceding model (like this one does) so they could be registered & tested on the road. An example of this is the stretched VL Berlina wagon hiding VN wagon running gear - fully registered. It would have started life as a complete VL before becoming the mule.

Production pilots used very low VIN/chassis numbers (ie less than 1000), and I know in VK they got to at least 114 of those, but they were more for production refinement & crash testing than actual vehicle development. Some of these pilot cars went on to have other lives - demo race cars for shopping centre promotions, donations to road safety programs, or educational uses such as TAFE and trade schools.

Some mules and pre-production shells that never got completed enough to pass ADRs (and thus couldn't get a VIN) usually had some form of ID (such as the tag number).

Engine and/or chassis development mules are often used on public roads (like the aforementioned VL, and even the 3-cam VN V8 mule, and there was also a VY Alloytec I've seen too).
Some of these mules may have seen several different driveline changes too. They were production vehicles, taken off the line - but depending on what needed fitting, they could have simply done a stock order, or a more involved process. This particular car could not have been ordered as a stock order, nor by Joe Public, as they would have had to manually push it along using pre-production VR towers (and likely other pressings). I think too, that apart from the driveline (ie the 6 speed box mainly) it was also so they could do real-world testing of the VR suspension geometry well prior to VR release, so they could hit the ground running with the HSV range at the same time. The front end was such a change that they couldn't achieve this without changing the towers. The IRS wouldn't have needed much, as it was already in production, well sorted by HSV since the SV90, and only had a minor track increase with VR.

HSV would have ordered something as basic as possible, but in the right spec where possible (ie manual pedal box, shift plate & console) to work up from - hence a V6 manual base model sedan, but with what looks like an IRS rear, and ABS (which wasn't available in early VP, but was later). It also has the remote-reservior hydraulic clutch setup from the T56, and cruise control - the VR stroker being the first manual Commodore to get factory cruise (except the VL 3.0L) - cruise that was previously restricted to auto-only. The rear 3/4 photo shows the wider VR front track, but the rear still looks narrow, as in the VP/VQ width IRS. So I think it was used to develop front suspension settings, and all the ancillaries for the upcoming driveline - including cruise control, and the unique clutch arrangement they had.

It would be interesting to see the strut sheet, as it would likely have some text on it denoting the car's destiny after production.
Sapphire blue was actually a much lighter blue, so somewhere along the lines it was painted a similar colour to the old Imperial blue (slight purple tinge to it) or perhaps the Euro Blue from the SV91 (which is what it looks like in the magazine article). The door jambs, strut towers, and rad support all look like original paint, so who knows when it was painted or if it wasn't even painted sapphire blue by Holden, but the color it is now.

The interior is now blue-based, but factory was grey - however, it has received a full VP Senator interior, which would explain that. Other interior changes are exactly what HSV were doing during VN & VP - base models couldn't get 4-power windows (it was optional fronts only), nor climate or a trip computer. HSV offered these options in VN and VP using patch harnesses, which allowed them to build up luxury spec models from base vehicles (ie the GTS was Berlina spec etc, and the clubby got the Calais dash, but in a base code shell). It probably has the speedo adapter box in it too.

The more you look at it, the more things pop out. The rear brake calipers look like the finned versions first used on the SV5000 to allow ventilated rear rotors. This continued into IRS models that preceded this car, but it completes the package.

Hi all , well I have just read the article in Unique Cars , who ever rebirthed it surely could have found a better donor car , ie at least one that was factory V8 . The HSV letter does not really say much and does not properly ID the car. I must say someone has done a great job it is a great looking car . Thanks Mark.

Your mention of the A/C is why I think it was more of development for mechanical changes to the VR that affected the engine, gearbox fitting, and unique ancillaries, as well as the front suspension development (spring & damping rates).

Rear seat belt would be because the shelf pressing changed with VR to accomodate it, and because the rear glass is shorter (higher) in a VR, they wouldn't have fitted that section of the body to a VP. However, the front towers are almost a 'drop in' item - with very little changed around them (rails, firewall, rad support etc).

I think the V6 was simply because they knew the driveline was coming out, so it was the cheapest source of a mule (remember the beancounters....). The rails are the same across V6 & V8, and the different K-frame uses the same holes (and rack and everything else), and the trans crossmember mounting holes are in all shells to suit all variants, so that's no issue.
The IRS mounts would have been from the factory too. Quite rare to find a K-code body with ABS & IRS fitted, even in later models.

The VR K-frame for the V8 is the same from VL>VS.

Have you seen a VQ with VQ in the VIN? Reason I ask, is that production models all used VS (the clear reason being to avoid Q & O confusion), but a fair few years back before I voluntarily gave farcebook the flick, I guy posted a windscreen VIN number that showed VQ instead of VS. I thought it was photoshopped, as he was the sort of inflammatory poster who would try to start an argument just for kicks, and didn't bite, but a few people commented and one guy suggested he'd also seen it on a pilot car that went to HSV for development for the SV90. If you've seen VQ it may just back this up.

There's plenty of other experimental cars built for various reasons too. A guy on a forum I was on years ago purchased a Devil Yellow VX, built some time before the Monaro debuted with that colour. The Holden dealer at Castle Hill also had a VX in Turismo blue - quite afew years before it came out in the VZ. he story with those was that a batch was made for external feedback from dealers & public before the decision was made to run with the coloir in production. In each case those cars had their tags stamped with the same paint code used on production models some time later.

Speaking of series 1 & series 2 etc, that HSV car is a late series 1. Series 2 officially lined up with tag # L600000 in the VP, but from about L595000 they all feature an option code for "pre series 2 upgrades" where parts from the series 2 were fitted to late series 1s.

One thing which has always puzzled me is why are VR towers an egg shape?

When VN was released, the front end was the same track as the narrower VB-VL, and the wider body of the VN caused nervous "twitchy" handling because of it. They did, however, widen the diff to increase the rear track, but this didn't help the front.
HSV solved this in the SV5000 and VN Group A by fitting a narrower VL diff, and using wider offset wheels to increase the front and rear track, and improve the handling. Holden then revised the front end with VR to achieve a number of goals, with the 2 most important improvements for handling being the wider track, and increased positive castor (adding stability, and self-centering).
To do this they needed to move the wheels out, and lean the strut back further.

To make this happen in the VR they changed to cast lower control arms, which are longer than VB-VP, and a separate hub assembly (with sealed, non replaceable bearings) that the strut bolts to. This also moved the entire geometry outwards to align with the wider track, and to maintain the camber angle, the top of the strut also needed to move outwards.

To increase castor, they had to lay the strut back, which means not only did the top pivot point have to move outwards, but also a fair way back too. If you look at the relationship between the top pivot and the wheel, you'll find contemporary Euros of similar vintage (such as BMW) also locate the top pivot points well back.

The front section of the raised part of the strut tower in a VR is the same as VB-VP, and they simply altered the tooling to extend the tower to where it needed to be. So instead of simply reloacting the round tower back & out entirely, they only altered part of the pressing, resulting in the ovoid shape, filled with a cheap, easily manufactured mounting plate for the pivot. This is most likely due to beancounters only allowing a minimum of spend on new tooling - after all, the entire front bolt-on sheetmetal, bootlid, and rear 1/4 panels were new, with additional money spent on the rear shelf, rear screen, and C pillar mods.

You can see what they really wanted to achieve with VR if you have a look at a VT - the strut tower is how VR would have been if they had more cash to spend, or the time & effort to put into it. The VT uses the same strut and top bearing as VR/VS too.