Originally Posted by: commodorenut 
Originally Posted by: castellan 
Look what HQ racing can do with that little 1V Stromberg carby and the right setup.
And 20+ years of aftermarket development in engine improvements, advances in machining accuracy & tolerance, a much better understanding of airflow through an engine, coupled with massive technological leaps in tyres, and even suspension components, plus many other parts.
None of which was available in 1971.
Apples are not oranges.... you're comparing 1990s candy apples to 1970s oranges....
The article and follow-on discussion was comparing the 2 engines of the era - in that era, not 20 years on. And in their era, they didn't have 20+ years of development to help them.
Holden couldn't get more than about 140hp out of the last incarnation of the 253, yet the Commodore cup guys were putting out 300hp control engines some 10-15 years later.
Again, development and technology - it didn't exist when they were new cars.
Had a mate in 1984 with a worked 202 in a LH Torana with only twin Stromberg's and no triple carby came near him, f that thing went and was good on fuel.
Get the right cam and all set up just right and all is good.
The HQ 202 racing are not chasing max HP out of a engine, it's just a combination that works well with what they have to deal with.
Some people had there head screwed on back in the 70's and 80's, one can look at the Holden 308 in Repco racing, or street able 308's with 330hp were no problem, nothing has advanced anymore with a carby really, cam tec and head work have moved forward but not all people were stupid like most just trying to make max peek power or porting like a idiot or dumb as to getting cams right for the job. most just tossed together a setup without understanding what they were truly doing.
I remember a bloke in the late 70's with a 308 HQ that was that powerful that it twisted the chassis and it was street geared, not drag car rubbish, that thing was eating all the worked 350's and 351's around easy.
There were people around that knew what they truly were doing back in the days but not many were in that league at all, some were good but not masters like that.
It's a lot to do with getting the combination together right and just look at the gearing as well and see that a stock red 202 can do 185km/h with a 3.08 diff and out perform a 3.36 from like 60km/h on, so when one looks into such you can see what works better or not in some ways by looking into such.
Just by looking as stock engines and figuring how diff ratios truly work etc and then expanding on such knowledge you can have the edge on others.
I would race dirt bikes and I would look at the track working out the gearing as I was riding and think ok I am going to use x combination and see if it works.
A mate of mine went out to the MX track on a DRZ400 and he was 45yo and blew all the best younger riders in that town off, on a bloody milk crate DRZ400 !
My elder brother had a stock HQ 3SP manual 173 and his mate had a stock Zodiac Mk III auto, now that Zodiac would blow the 173 HQ away and that got me thinking as to how the bloody hell could this be so, I believed it to have to be in the gearing. and then when I got really blown away in my stock 202 HQ by a stock HD Holden full of coons down the street from 60km/h on, I thought hang on ! what the f ! it was all in the gearing.
I had a mate with the same VY SS and both performed the same but then he dropped the diff ratio fro 3.46 to 3.9 and I worked out the advantages and dis advantage, one would think that the lower would have all the advantages but I did not, he could get me off the line 1st and 2ed but from then on nothing was in it really and from 210km/h I just wiped the floor with him. there were some other advantages as well with the lower gearing to be sure, but it's all interesting to me.