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Maybe TB was as unpalatable as VD? |
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Don't forget there was a VA Commodore . In NZ the effectively series 3 VK was stamped VA . Thanks Mark. |
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Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on |
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Originally Posted by: HK1837  Maybe TB was as unpalatable as VD? Maybe, you would wonder why they used VB though, it is a beer brand.
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Only in one State though back then. |
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Originally Posted by: justgm Don't forget there was a VA Commodore . In NZ the effectively series 3 VK was stamped VA . Thanks Mark. What do you mean by that, 1978 in NZ Commodore ? Or are you saying in NZ they got the VK body with C pillar window like the Opel Senator had in 1977. In NZ you got the 2.0L 6 cyl in the VL. NZ got 138 6 cyl HK-T-G-Q holden's I believe.
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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Originally Posted by: HK1837 The codes were a year based code, so FB meant 1959, EK meant 1960, EH meant 1963 or something like that. I can't recall exactly (Dr Terry will!) but for the second digit K meant 0 and B was 9 (no I) counting backwards. The first digits had F as 5, and E and 6. A Journo worked it out and then they changed it. Not sure how the H codes worked exactly. It all made sense once the early 70'd came around where you had:
T - small car.
U - 4cyl Torana.
V - 6cyl and V8 Torana - later reallocated to Commodore with all UC becoming U.
W - Holden.
So TA was the first small car, not sure why TX was next but we got TC, TD, TE, TF.
LH was really UA, LX was UB and then UC.
WA was meant to replace HV (HQ 1971-72 then HV but HQ became a "series2" without being called that, and then the HV design became HJ. Followed by WB.
Nopt sure what happened to VA, but we got VB and VC. Not sure what happened after that. VA..??? there was a VA. I saw one (of several) in the early V car prototypes Holden got from Opel at FBend and LangLang ...which as we know, came to be called Commodore. REKORD is not really a grab you marketing name is it! Why no VA released? The VA was 'clinic'd' (as GMH always did via Patterson's) and the result was.... uggggh ! worst result of anything shown in the prior few decades. Most of the GMH Product Approval Group (aka the directors) hated the front and some parts of the interior. A re-design of the 'hated' parts was hastily done and we got the VB. btw.. HQ was to be followed by HU (which inhouse at FBend became known as 'Harden the F'Up) but it was writ HV that never happened as we know and HJ ( a mess styling wise) was what the customers got. there was never officially a VD Commodore (yes.. for that very obvious reason) but some wags at Pagewood and Acacia Ridge did get stamped a number of VC Commodore build plates .. VD . A mate has a VC L sedan with a genuine untampered stamped with VD build plate Also I could never work out how Gemini got the TX label .. when it was followed by TC-TD-TE-TF-TG then that awful RB (note an RA Gemini was never mentioned in the GMH docs I saw) and finally, Torana? given that UC was originally designated UD .. with a V8 included (and no 4 cyl) after GM Detroit allowed no extension to the L series car line (UC was originally meant to be LU) plus I don't recall any internal GMH documents or drawings/parts diagrams for a UA or UB . LC/LJ was always to be followed by further L series Holdens (LH was signed off by Detroit while LC was still on sale) just to add to the history lesson... should have asked more questions when I was there 1977 Opel Senator looks just like our VB Commodore on the outside front to back doors I thought and the grill just has a Opel badge on it and the dash is the same looking type thing. I wonder what the Opel Senator would of cost if imported to Australia in 1979 and they had 134KW at 5800RPM OHC 3.0L EFI, IRS and 210KM/H. not bad as a Merc 280SE had 138KW at $37000. I liked the HJ style but not the Kingswood long speedo I hated that as well as the HK speedo I can't stand them.
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Way back in 1974 it was proposed the VA Torana would take over from the LH Torana and commence production in January 1977.
The VA was slated to only come in 4 and 6 cyl variants.
The first Gemini model series was proposed to be called TB. The connotations are obvious, perhaps that is why they chose TX instead.
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VA Commodore in NZ was a facelift of VK , it came out in Mid 1986 and went into 1987 as NZ did not have all its service stations available with the new "Unleaded petrol" This is why I say " series 3 Vk" . VK Series 1 had the big mirrors and door lock knobs in the top of the doors ,VK series 2 had the VL type mirrors and slide door locks . Yes we had 2.0l VLs from early 1987. Thanks Mark. |
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Originally Posted by: justgm VA Commodore in NZ was a facelift of VK , it came out in Mid 1986 and went into 1987 as NZ did not have all its service stations available with the new "Unleaded petrol" This is why I say " series 3 Vk" . VK Series 1 had the big mirrors and door lock knobs in the top of the doors ,VK series 2 had the VL type mirrors and slide door locks . Yes we had 2.0l VLs from early 1987. Thanks Mark. In NZ you never had EGR did you ? like ADR27A and you never had cat converters made Law ? so your 1986 had no cat converter, do hey have them now ? I hired a VF Commodore when in NZ but I never looked to see if it had cat converted, bloody loud V6 I though down low, so I am just thinking that maybe they don't have cats on them. I think it was $10.000 more for a Commodore in NZ than Aus. What was it with the VB Commodore then NZ did not get them in 1978 ? and no VC or VH, I don't remember seeing any of them. What engine in the mid 1986 then ?
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We got VB in about mid 1979 as this was normal for new models , usually about 6 months behind Aussy. Yes we did get all the Commodore models VC-VH -VK -VL . HX came out with full ADR27a , but at some stage they went back to HQ-HJ spec engines as NZ did not and still has not got emissions testing. VF Commodores are fitted with Cat -cons . Yes we can still remove them ,I have just removed all 4 from my Mercedes ML430 tow wagon , goes much better. Thanks Mark. |
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Originally Posted by: castellan
They had to skip the VD Commodore as sales could be affected I would think. but skipped VE, VF, VG for VH and then skipped VI as you can't have that because it's a number and VJ, for VK. VL, no VM can't have that, VN, no VO, VP, VQ, VR, VS. VT, VU, no VV can't have VW, VX, VY, VZ. and then they come back for VE and VF and last VA and the next one was going to be the VD but they knew it was not going to sell. maybe the VG will come.
The VG was the ute version of the VN, so it's already used. Dr Terry Yes ! Funny that I forgot about that VG ute, when talking to most people they relate to it as just a VN looks just the same and the VQ Statesman I was talking to a Holden dealer who claimed it to be a VN or VP Statesman and I said no it's called a VQ. No ! I got back. I would not bother to correct anyone for calling a VG ute a VN in general unless I was talking to one who was into cars. but a Statesman no I would not let it slide so easy, because she look so different. I would think that Holden gave the Commodore ute the VG because she was an all new ute to define this thing, maybe if it became a dud they could just palm it off as a VG, who knows. But look at that VQ Statesman at the time  she was something else, no Statesman for so many years and then here we go she is back in glory. I suppose the VG ute is somewhat the same. Holden were coming back in glory. If the VG and VQ came out on the same month say as the VN well they would ben classed the same VN maybe.
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Another trivia the 1980-2 Toyota Corona got our Holden starfire 4. Now did Holden build this engine for Toyota Australia or did Toyota build it ? Was that engine the same as in our VC-H ? Did Toyota have to claim it's engine better to sell it. What colour engine was it. Are the gaskets the same. Are the valves the same. Did Toyota just put this engine in their Corona because of all the hype that Holden was making about this engine was going to their best selling engine ever. Is the carby exactly the same as the Holden one or is the intake manifold the same. Is the water pump the same. Is the camshaft the same grind. Did Toyota build the Holden V6 for the Lexcen. Did the Nissan Australia build it's own 4.1L falcon engines for the XFN ute, they gave 2 years warranty on such, when Ford only gave 1 year. Did they have their own Nissan engine prefix. Edited by user Friday, 10 April 2020 2:53:29 PM(UTC)
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They were all built in their source plant.
AFAIK Lexcen was built by Holden at Elizabeth alongside Commodore etc.. Corolla built at Dandenong with Nova. Apollo was built with Camry at Altona. Mavericks would have been built by Nissan etc.
That Starfire in Corona would have come from Fisherman’s Bend. Pretty sure the banjos in Crown would have come from probably Woodville.
VG, VQ, VU and V2 are like described. They were released out of sync but normally ended up aligned with the rest of the series at the next series update. So VG became VP, and VQ became VQII then VP. VU became VUII with VXII then VY. V2 changed to V2II when VY arrived, and V2III when VYII arrived. CV8 eventually became VZ though. |
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 They were all built in their source plant.
AFAIK Lexcen was built by Holden at Elizabeth alongside Commodore etc.. Corolla built at Dandenong with Nova. Apollo was built with Camry at Altona. Mavericks would have been built by Nissan etc.
That Starfire in Corona would have come from Fisherman’s Bend. Pretty sure the banjos in Crown would have come from probably Woodville.
VG, VQ, VU and V2 are like described. They were released out of sync but normally ended up aligned with the rest of the series at the next series update. So VG became VP, and VQ became VQII then VP. VU became VUII with VXII then VY. V2 changed to V2II when VY arrived, and V2III when VYII arrived. CV8 eventually became VZ though. Nissan XFN Utes were built by Ford. The VQ became VQII & then VR, there was no VP Statesman or Caprice. With the 1X in the XT130 Corona, the long motor was built at Fishermans Bend but the carby etc. was supplied by Toyota. Not sure about the cam specs, but they might have been to Toyo specs.The engine itself was a later version of the Starfire & the VC-VH 4-cyl was a later version again. Dr Terry |
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Ah yes, forgot about no VP Statesman. |
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Originally Posted by: HK1837 They were all built in their source plant.
AFAIK Lexcen was built by Holden at Elizabeth alongside Commodore etc.. Corolla built at Dandenong with Nova. Apollo was built with Camry at Altona. Mavericks would have been built by Nissan etc.
That Starfire in Corona would have come from Fisherman’s Bend. Pretty sure the banjos in Crown would have come from probably Woodville.
VG, VQ, VU and V2 are like described. They were released out of sync but normally ended up aligned with the rest of the series at the next series update. So VG became VP, and VQ became VQII then VP. VU became VUII with VXII then VY. V2 changed to V2II when VY arrived, and V2III when VYII arrived. CV8 eventually became VZ though. Nissan XFN Utes were built by Ford. The VQ became VQII & then VR, there was no VP Statesman or Caprice. With the 1X in the XT130 Corona, the long motor was built at Fishermans Bend but the carby etc. was supplied by Toyota. Not sure about the cam specs, but they might have been to Toyo specs.The engine itself was a later version of the Starfire & the VC-VH 4-cyl was a later version again. Dr Terry I am looking at hat Toyota has a different Cam grind and it's own intake and exhaust manifold and a Jap carby different valves and valve springs and it's own water pump and gaskets, what I could see of it was that it was dark blue colour engine. I never bothered to look at any engines back in the day. they run from Sep 1979 to 1-1983 but an update model 11-1981 with 5sp manual and the engine mods. The Wagon has leaf springs and the sedan had coil with panhard rod. they say that this engine runs better than the Holden. Did Holden change the valve springs in the VC Starfire 4 or Valves a bit ? I thought everything was just like the blue 6cyl heads as to valves and springs. I was surprised that the Toyota would bother at all with the Starfire 4 and would of just dropped it in and gave up doing anything with it at all. but they must of been thinking that his car was going to sell well, as to all the hype back in the day I remember. Toyotal would not of made a cracker going to all that fuss. or Holden were ripping them off. As to the XF Nissan ute I was thinking that they would have to have a different engine number at least to ID them for warranty.
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I was touring the Holden engine plant in 1980 ( after we had been to the Melbourne Motor Show) and I asked our tour guide why some of the Starfires were not Holden Blue ,he said " that's because they were for Toyota". We weren't allowed to take pictures. Thanks Mark. |
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Tonawanda and McKinnon engine plants treated them the same regardless of where they were going to be used. They used a suffix after the engine assembly date to say what the engine was and where it was intended for. Chevrolet assembly plants simply stamped a partial VIN next to the engine plant code. GMH did something similar. The difference I think is at the time of Starfire production all engines leaving Fisherman’s Bend had to have a engine number. My guess is it will just a GMH number but will have an identifier. Try and find a Corona and have a look. Finding a Lexcen might be easier though. |
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