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Originally Posted by: castellan  Originally Posted by: HK1837 Originally Posted by: Sandaro Hi Byron, I know you have raised the point before of Holden supplying vehicles for test in poor states of tune. Why would Holden do this, particularly pre supercar scare, you'd think the publicity of fast times (and at least some good pub banter) would have justified supplying good vehicles? Not poor tune, just no optimal tune. All it takes is the Quadrajet's secondaries opening only 90% and there is your 20hp performance loss. They always did it (or similar) with the quickest cars from about HK. GM had a strict no racing policy, and GMH didn't want to be seen to be flaunting that with cars that were perceived to be too fast (Ford did not have this problem, they were fully involved in racing and win at all costs was the mantra). GMH's market share was too great to risk it from a PR perspective either. The HK was such a leap in performance too compared to what came before it. At the HK Press release and the drive day at Lang Lang the prior week (to meet magazine deadlines) it was all very orchestrated. The 307 Monaros were all auto with 2.78 rear axles (like all prior V8 HK), single exhaust etc, no manual cars. The GTS327's (most (possibly all) with 3.08 rear axles) were not allowed to be driven without a GMH staffer in the car and no-one was allowed to exceed the tacho's 5500rpm redline. All the magazine tests of the car were from these days. Only Rob Luck didn't believe it, and got a private car to test which was tuned right and had a 3.36 rear axle. That test is public record, 15.4s and 130mph top speed. GMH didn't want that publicity - they made money from vanilla cars, not the few hundred 327's. Winning with the car at Bathurst was what mattered, not on the street. When the HT came about, it was so much quicker again that every car presented to the Press for testing never made maximum power (simple Quadrajet adjustment), except for two of them (one HT by Mel Nichols and a HG with Peter Robinson) but proper tests were never done, only 0-100mph by Mel Nichols. The time it becomes really obvious is when the Press tested HQ 350 manual and auto GTS side by side, and the auto trounced the manual to 100mph, plus out accelerated it. Same engine, same exhaust, same 3.08 rear axle, and the auto being a power robbing TH400. The manual was again fiddled with, impossible not to be. They even commented on it. This continued too, with cars like the L34 not allowed to be tested by the Press plus it was so de-tuned as a road car it was not super fast anyway, until you made the few right mods it was designed for (cam, carby and exhaust). It is very rare also to find road tests anywhere of a 308/5.0L manual pre-pollution Holden car (HT to HJ) with dual exhaust (proper 2" dual exhaust, not the Torana pea shooters), as far as I know there was only that HJ GTS test I mentioned. After HJ the 5.0L performance dropped off significantly (lost about 34hp I think it was 250hp down to 216hp) so it didn't matter if they had dual exhaust standard. By the time Commodore and V5H came around the world had caught up and it wasn't so much an issue. Just think about it though, if an A9X with a 216hp 5.0L and a 2.6 rear axle with 14" tyres can do a 16s flat quarter, imagine how fast a well tuned pre 6/76 LX SS hatchback or SLR5000 with the 250hp 5.0L, optional 3.08 rear axle and 13" tyres would be? If the 227hp LH SLR5000 with optional 3.08 rear axle could do a 14.9s quarter, what does an extra 23hp get you? My guess is 14.5 or thereabouts, that is quicker than a stock PhaseIII (but not a fair comparison as it is an optional rear axle, give the PhaseIII an optional 3.5 rear axle and it goes quicker again). Take the engine fan off and give it the A9X's electric fans and maybe even better? I just remembered, they were even at it with HX and HZ. See that those HX and HZ manual 5.0L Press test Sandman vans I mentioned in the prior post also had optional 3.08 rear axles? This would slow them down dramatically than the standard car with 3.36. GMH were very careful with the whole image, every car in the press fleet was carefully chosen with certain options for various reasons. I have thousands of HQ to HZ’s recorded and L31, M21, GU4 is rarely seen and my guess is GMH didn’t build any for sale, the only ones built were ordered that way. An M21 with a 3.08 in a commercial is a horrible thing too, the magazine comments that the van pulled like a train but was heavy clutched (which a HX half cable clutch mech is) and hard to get off the line. Even with the 3.08 rear axle they say that it will still blow away most cars on the road from the lights, they timed it at 16.9s over the quarter mile. For what other reason than to take some edge off would they fit 3.08 rear axles to these Press test Sandmans? I’ll go looking, wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t more commonplace in earlier Holden. I don't believe a 3.36 ratio diff is worthy of any 253 or 308 in anyway as it's too low geared. A 253 gets a M20 box with a lower 1st gear that's fine with a 3.08 ratio A 308 is totally fine with a 3.08 and M21 taking off, if I were to have my old 308 on idle and accidently dropped the clutch out it would take off, it would not stall that's for sure. Look at the Falcon 250 they all have 2.92 ratio auto or manual. I seen nothing wrong with my HG 253 auto having a 2.78 ratio and 3.08 would be a fine ratio but when the 2.78 blew up I put a 3.36 in it and it lacked performance with it, in fact and I hated that ratio in it as it did not perform well at all and that diff blew up snapping the casting where the main bolt caps go in, it was a diff out of a EH, so it may of been only the early cast iron and not the better stronger cast ones that came later on in the EH. that EH had a 149. I thought that a 3.36 ration would make it really get up and go well but it was all rev and no action really, I could not find a 3.08 so I went back to a 2.78 What's interesting is not so much the 400M times it's the 500M and 600M times to 1000M times that really show another picture of the performance ability's of a road car. every thing has to be expressed not to mention KM/H from 60 on and then one can look to the ratios in the box and the diff to work out what you can do. I am convinced that most motoring test drivers rev a stock 308 out too far in 1st and 2ed not to mention 3rd, 4000rpm is max in 1st 4500 is max in 2 and 3rd and any more and you end up not performing the times as well. you have to use the torque to your advantage and that's what good 308s have. A manual 253 or 308 with 2.78 diff is no good to drive taking off with 14in wheels unless you are in a torana, I had a LH SL/R5000 2.78 and 14in wheels and M21 box but also 3.08 ratio diff and that is better all round, to go 3.36 would be stupid unless you had a big cam. 253 manual came with 3.08 standard up until the end of HJ except for cab-chassis. The 253 manual then came standard with 3.55 (like cab-chassis always did) until later in HZ changing to 3.36 except cab-chassis. Cab-chassis only ever came with 3.36 if it was a V8 fitted with factory A/C. About the only time you ever saw a HQ 253 with a 3.36 was in SS or if optioned with an M21 which a lot of HQ GTS sedans were. 308 manual always came standard with 3.36 as M21 and 3.08 rear axle is too tall for everyday use with 14" tyres. There are some 3.08 optioned examples but rare as they were a pig to drive (I owned a few, almost always changed to box out for an M20 or an auto). HK-HG V8 banjo were nodular iron carriers mostly made by Borg Warner, the 6cyl ratios (3.36, 3.55 and 3.90) were standard grey iron cast by GMH. GMH started to make the V8 centres later on in the run, but all the LSD ones were Borg Warner. Only the useless road testers did as you say. The good ones were often CAMS licenced race drivers like Bill Tuckey. Rob Luck and Mel Nichols were really good too. The really good journalists told you in the articles where the sweet shift spot was for best performance as they tried various ways to get the best use out of the car. Many times they even give you 0-100mph and 1/4 mile times on auto cars in drive and shifting manually. They found the HQ 350 auto performed best letting that beautiful TH400 do its thing. |
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