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holden05 Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, 27 December 2021 1:01:03 PM(UTC)
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Finally getting back to getting the wb back on the road. The brake master cylinder needs a rebuild. Ive got it out of the car, i haven’t rebuilt one before, are these easy enough to do yourself or should I take it to a brake shop?
202tonner Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 28 December 2021 1:08:46 AM(UTC)
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Never done one but comprehensive instructions are out there on the net and in the manuals.
If you have drums there is a little valve in the outlet which is difficult to replace. IIRC it needs drilling, tapping and pulling.
And if the bore is scratched or pitted I would let a shop do it.
But if you have the tools you need, have a go.
If you get another one from a brake shop you will also have a spare which is worth considering as parts become rarer. I would definitely get one from a speciality brake shop as the autoparts store ones can be poor quality (damhik).
Good luck.
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#3 Posted : Thursday, 30 December 2021 11:33:35 PM(UTC)
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I'd get it professionally rebuilt and stainless steel sleeved.
Attn camry drivers. The accelerator is the skinny pedal on the right.
holden05 Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 11 January 2022 10:43:30 AM(UTC)
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Ive dropped the master cylinder off to a brake shop and he’s pulled it almost apart but is struggling to get one of the pistons out and has advised the only way is to slam the cylinder on concrete to jar it out. He said it will mark up the cylinder which is original
Should I proceed or just buy a new one?
Sandaro Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 11 January 2022 12:02:10 PM(UTC)
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If that is 'the only' method he can come up with then personally I'd be taking my master cylinder elsewhere.

Incidentally, was the concrete floor of the workshop well marked from prior jobs??
Dr Terry Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 11 January 2022 3:24:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: holden05 Go to Quoted Post
Ive dropped the master cylinder off to a brake shop and he’s pulled it almost apart but is struggling to get one of the pistons out and has advised the only way is to slam the cylinder on concrete to jar it out. He said it will mark up the cylinder which is original
Should I proceed or just buy a new one?


That sounds pretty sus !! I would take it to a shop that has seen one of these before.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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#7 Posted : Tuesday, 11 January 2022 5:35:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: holden05 Go to Quoted Post
Ive dropped the master cylinder off to a brake shop and he’s pulled it almost apart but is struggling to get one of the pistons out and has advised the only way is to slam the cylinder on concrete to jar it out. He said it will mark up the cylinder which is original
Should I proceed or just buy a new one?



pardon...what?
geezers even I have the various sets of pliers to get recalcitrant pistons out of master cyl bodies.
Plus compressed air adaptors if they are still not budging (and a heavy leather glove to catch the little mother!)

smack 'em on the concrete you do NOT do... ever!

Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
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#8 Posted : Tuesday, 11 January 2022 7:57:37 PM(UTC)
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Do he say it was a brake shop, or a break shop?
The Readymix Easyout isn't a good choice.
holden05 Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 12 January 2022 5:18:49 PM(UTC)
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End up just buying a new bosch one. Got my
Old one back with it. I’m pretty sure I’ve been dudded as I took pics of the old one before I sent it off and I’m sure as hell what I’ve got back ain’t mine
Anyhow, should I bring it to their attention or just move on with the new one?
Sandaro Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, 13 January 2022 5:32:38 PM(UTC)
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Matter for you, but probably a waste of time. I'll guess and say by the time he asked you about smashing it into the concrete and damaging it he had already lost his temper and done it, and was subsequently hoping for your approval.
holden05 Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, 26 January 2022 12:13:12 PM(UTC)
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Got the new master in but I’m not getting any fluid at the bleed nipples. Ive even taken the bleed nipples out and hardly any fluid comes out
Balfizar Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 26 January 2022 1:01:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: holden05 Go to Quoted Post
Got the new master in but I’m not getting any fluid at the bleed nipples. Ive even taken the bleed nipples out and hardly any fluid comes out


There are 6 ways to bleed Hydraulic actuators (read - "Brakes" for us)
All well and good when the process you follow works. What do you do when it doesn't?



1) Normal -2 man - Pump/unlock/bleed/lock - repeat

2) Gravity -1 man - unlock all calipers - long drain hose to watch for no more bubbles (top-up reservoir) - slow messy.

3) Vaccum pump -1 man - Attach vacuum pump - unlock - apply vacuum and "suck" fluid out of caliper and right through the system from the reservoir.

4) Preliminary Bench bleed - priming the Master Cylinder before installing and attaching brake lines.

5) Reverse Injection. For stubborn bubble/air lock master cylinders - inject brake fluid into Master Cylinder brake line ports.

6) Orientation Bleeding. simply bubbles float to the top - if the output port is not at the top air will be trapped - that is why caliper output bleed points are always at the top.

Uphill master cylinders and even level ones will still trap a percentage of air if the output port is not at the highest point. (bench bleed with the output port orientated at the highest point.)
Dr Terry Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, 27 January 2022 12:15:55 PM(UTC)
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My preferred method when fitting a new master cyl is to bleed it in a vice before it gets installed to the car.

This makes bleeding on the car quicker.

In this case you may have a problem with the pushrod not being fully retracted back into the booster. This blocks off the compensation ports in the m/cyl, prevented any bleeding.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Dr Terry Offline
#14 Posted : Thursday, 27 January 2022 12:24:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Balfizar Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: holden05 Go to Quoted Post
Got the new master in but I’m not getting any fluid at the bleed nipples. Ive even taken the bleed nipples out and hardly any fluid comes out


There are 6 ways to bleed Hydraulic actuators (read - "Brakes" for us)
All well and good when the process you follow works. What do you do when it doesn't?



1) Normal -2 man - Pump/unlock/bleed/lock - repeat

2) Gravity -1 man - unlock all calipers - long drain hose to watch for no more bubbles (top-up reservoir) - slow messy.

3) Vaccum pump -1 man - Attach vacuum pump - unlock - apply vacuum and "suck" fluid out of caliper and right through the system from the reservoir.

4) Preliminary Bench bleed - priming the Master Cylinder before installing and attaching brake lines.

5) Reverse Injection. For stubborn bubble/air lock master cylinders - inject brake fluid into Master Cylinder brake line ports.

6) Orientation Bleeding. simply bubbles float to the top - if the output port is not at the top air will be trapped - that is why caliper output bleed points are always at the top.

Uphill master cylinders and even level ones will still trap a percentage of air if the output port is not at the highest point. (bench bleed with the output port orientated at the highest point.)


Add to that

7) A proper pressure bleeder, similar to what the assembly plant uses. It forces fluid through the reservoir all the way to each wheel using around 10-15 psi of positive pressure, simple to use & bullet-proof. They are also useful for diagnosing problems like blockages & restrictions etc.

They are a bit expensive, but are indispensable if you do a lot of brake work.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK-Q-Z5.0Lfan Offline
#15 Posted : Friday, 28 January 2022 8:10:22 AM(UTC)
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Add to that

7) A proper pressure bleeder, similar to what the assembly plant uses. It forces fluid through the reservoir all the way to each wheel using around 10-15 psi of positive pressure, simple to use & bullet-proof. They are also useful for diagnosing problems like blockages & restrictions etc.

They are a bit expensive, but are indispensable if you do a lot of brake work.

Dr Terry[/quote]


G'day Dr Terry

Do you have a particular brand of pressure blender you recommend for the home maintenance person?
Dr Terry Offline
#16 Posted : Friday, 28 January 2022 9:15:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK-Q-Z5.0Lfan Go to Quoted Post

Add to that

7) A proper pressure bleeder, similar to what the assembly plant uses. It forces fluid through the reservoir all the way to each wheel using around 10-15 psi of positive pressure, simple to use & bullet-proof. They are also useful for diagnosing problems like blockages & restrictions etc.

They are a bit expensive, but are indispensable if you do a lot of brake work.

Dr Terry



G'day Dr Terry

Do you have a particular brand of pressure blender you recommend for the home maintenance person?
[/quote]

This is the one that I use.

https://www.liquid-levers.com/sbb.htm

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Balfizar Offline
#17 Posted : Friday, 28 January 2022 9:54:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Balfizar Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: holden05 Go to Quoted Post
Got the new master in but I’m not getting any fluid at the bleed nipples. Ive even taken the bleed nipples out and hardly any fluid comes out


There are 6 ways to bleed Hydraulic actuators (read - "Brakes" for us)
All well and good when the process you follow works. What do you do when it doesn't?



1) Normal -2 man - Pump/unlock/bleed/lock - repeat

2) Gravity -1 man - unlock all calipers - long drain hose to watch for no more bubbles (top-up reservoir) - slow messy.

3) Vaccum pump -1 man - Attach vacuum pump - unlock - apply vacuum and "suck" fluid out of caliper and right through the system from the reservoir.

4) Preliminary Bench bleed - priming the Master Cylinder before installing and attaching brake lines.

5) Reverse Injection. For stubborn bubble/air lock master cylinders - inject brake fluid into Master Cylinder brake line ports.

6) Orientation Bleeding. simply bubbles float to the top - if the output port is not at the top air will be trapped - that is why caliper output bleed points are always at the top.

Uphill master cylinders and even level ones will still trap a percentage of air if the output port is not at the highest point. (bench bleed with the output port orientated at the highest point.)


Add to that

7) A proper pressure bleeder, similar to what the assembly plant uses. It forces fluid through the reservoir all the way to each wheel using around 10-15 psi of positive pressure, simple to use & bullet-proof. They are also useful for diagnosing problems like blockages & restrictions etc.

They are a bit expensive, but are indispensable if you do a lot of brake work.

Dr Terry


Hand Held Vacuum Pressure Pump Clutch Brake Bleeder Tester Set Bleeding Kit Car Price: AU $27.95 each
Vacuum or pressure is just pressure differential I have used this and it works well.
eBay item number:393541147576
Probably a cheaper but still effective option for the infrequent user.

Edited by user Friday, 28 January 2022 9:57:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Dr Terry Offline
#18 Posted : Friday, 28 January 2022 10:44:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Balfizar Go to Quoted Post
[
Hand Held Vacuum Pressure Pump Clutch Brake Bleeder Tester Set Bleeding Kit Car Price: AU $27.95 each
Vacuum or pressure is just pressure differential I have used this and it works well.
eBay item number:393541147576
Probably a cheaper but still effective option for the infrequent user.


Yes, for the infrequent user they are fine. The main drama we had with the vacuum style was that it sucked air back thru the thread at the bleeder nipple. You could never tell when you got rid of all of the air out of the system.

Having said that, they work on the same basic pressure differential.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Balfizar Offline
#19 Posted : Friday, 28 January 2022 5:38:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Balfizar Go to Quoted Post
[
Hand Held Vacuum Pressure Pump Clutch Brake Bleeder Tester Set Bleeding Kit Car Price: AU $27.95 each
Vacuum or pressure is just pressure differential I have used this and it works well.
eBay item number:393541147576
Probably a cheaper but still effective option for the infrequent user.


Yes, for the infrequent user they are fine. The main drama we had with the vacuum style was that it sucked air back thru the thread at the bleeder nipple. You could never tell when you got rid of all of the air out of the system.

Having said that, they work on the same basic pressure differential.

Dr Terry


Yes noticed this problem
sucked air back thru the thread at the bleeder nipple. Little bit of thick grease around the thread/caliper/nipple will fix that.

You could never tell when you got rid of all of the air out of the system. (used method 1 to finish off the vacuum bleed and make sure all air is out)
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