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Would anyone know what gearboxes were in the 3 gts 327 Monaro's used in the 68 marathon
I have an article that implies they were turbo 4oo's
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Dr Terry will know more about these. But I think you are correct, they were TH400 but also 350ci engines. Remember although it was 1968 it was late in 1968 and the 350 had been around since about August 1966 in SS Camaro and since August 1967 in the ChevyII Nova SS. The 1969 version of the 350 had been in production since the end of July 1968. GMH would have had access to some of these for the upcoming HT although they didn't get their hands on 1969 spec production engines until around March-April 1969, so what was in those HK's may have been 1968 or early 1969 engines. Until I saw one in the flesh I wouldn't know. Unfortunately they were NSW rego I believe so not easy to find their original registration records. |
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Yes those London to Sydney cars were very 'special'. They had 350 SBC V8s & TH400 transmissions. They also had fully ducted in-dash air conditioning, with a Frigidaire compressor & a 54-gallon fuel tank with 3 fillers, one on each rear quarter & one in the centre just behind the rear screen.
Some prep work was carried out in the GMH service garage at the Bend & final prep was carried out by Scuderia Veloce in Sydney. This was where the David Mckay run Holden Dealer Racing Team was based in 1968. This is probably why they had NSW rego.
I've tried tracking them down over the years. The only genuine lead I ever had was I met a drag racer (now passed away) who purchased one at a GMH auction around 1969/70. It was stripped of its useful bits & the body disposed of, very sad.
Dr Terry
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Thank you HK327 and Dr Terry, I have an article written by David Mckay in the Sunday telegraph in July 1971 road testing our HQ Monarols 350 and he mentions the 68 monaros
with the bigger motor's and turbo 400 gearboxes
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You have to do a bit of surgery to make a TH400 fit a HD-HG. A TH350 only just fits.
I don't have any leads for them either. I tracked down an original HK-HG 12 bolt in NSW at one stage that probably came from one of those or one of the 5litre manual HK Monaro rally cars. I think it was a 3.73 ratio, can't remember exactly. |
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Yes those London to Sydney cars were very 'special'. They had 350 SBC V8s & TH400 transmissions. They also had fully ducted in-dash air conditioning, with a Frigidaire compressor & a 54-gallon fuel tank with 3 fillers, one on each rear quarter & one in the centre just behind the rear screen.
Some prep work was carried out in the GMH service garage at the Bend & final prep was carried out by Scuderia Veloce in Sydney. This was where the David Mckay run Holden Dealer Racing Team was based in 1968. This is probably why they had NSW rego.
I've tried tracking them down over the years. The only genuine lead I ever had was I met a drag racer (now passed away) who purchased one at a GMH auction around 1969/70. It was stripped of its useful bits & the body disposed of, very sad.
Dr Terry
my 2c .. just quoting publications I have (have read) which might help John Smailes in his book on the event states that all 3 GTS327 Monaros (no mention of 350s) were fitted with 3 speed autos in place of the usual manual and the cars were modified for air conditioning. I am pretty certain these would be T400s as my recollection is that the T350 was not released (interestingly a 2 speed PowerGlide replacement) until 1969. So... I checked Wiki and it says - The Turbo Hydra-matic 350 was first used in 1969 model cars. It was developed jointly by Buick and Chevrolet to replace the two-speed 'Glide This is also stated by a number of USA motoring mags- MotorTrend etc The 'Official racing history of Holden' states that mildly modified 3 GTS327 Monaros were used and ... (bit unhelpful that) Norm Darwin's excellent book 'Monaro Magic' states that after testing a HK GTS307 coupe (by David McKay) the request was that all the cars to be used be fitted with the latest 350 V8 engine and a bed in the back ! |
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You are right I think Smitty, the TH350 was released for ‘69 model year. Pretty sure though I have seen it mentioned as being fitted to late ‘68 year models, seen it in GM Tech Spec documents and there are a few 1968 engine codes for TH350. Which means it was available around the April-July 1968 timeframe as 1969 model year started in September 1968 with drivelines in production from the end of July 1968. |
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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Norm Darwin's excellent book 'Monaro Magic' states that after testing a HK GTS307 coupe (by David McKay) the request was that all the cars to be used be fitted with the latest 350 V8 engine and a bed in the back !
Yes, I forgot about the "bed" in the back. They removed the rear seat entirely & fitted what looked like a fibreglass moulding resembling a bed, but with good side supports like a racing seat. There was no cushion or trim of any sort, even the carpets were removed leaving a bare metal floor. Dr Terry |
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 You have to do a bit of surgery to make a TH400 fit a HD-HG. A TH350 only just fits.
I don't have any leads for them either. I tracked down an original HK-HG 12 bolt in NSW at one stage that probably came from one of those or one of the 5litre manual HK Monaro rally cars. I think it was a 3.73 ratio, can't remember exactly. Yes, lots of "surgery" to the floor & frame. Given the amount of fabrication these cars went thru, with the integrated a/cond, the 54-gallon fuel tank & the rather serious roll cage (for the era), I think a TH400 conversion would have been be rather simple. The other item I remember was the mesh covered dual headlight set-up with powerful washer jets fed from what looked like a 20-litre reservoir in the boot. Doug Chivas (who was one of the drivers) was a friend of my father & we had several chats about these cars. One vivid memory Doug had was the temperature of the floor when driving thru the mountains in Turkey where he said that the floor was so hot you could fry eggs on it. It gave him great respect for the TH400. They drove for hours in 2nd gear in high revs over the mountain roads. Good thing they had a 54-gallon fuel tank !! Dr Terry |
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The TH400 is tough as nails, unless you don’t service it you’d never kill one with a 295/300hp 350 unless you were towing with it and letting the converter cook the oil (ie insufficient cooling). In a HK sized vehicle eg ‘69 Camaro, the 300hp 350 when optioned as a turbo-hydro (you could still option Powerglide in 1969) you got a TH350, the TH400 was for big block only. So GMH must have specifically ordered the TH400 to go with the engine - to that stage the only Chevrolet small block fitted with TH400 was the 275hp 327 in B-body (full size). Depending upon when they ordered the engine and box the TH400 was probably the only 3spd auto available anyway.
What I’ve been wondering is, would the engine have been the stock 1968 L48? These were 10.25:1 and needed high octane fuel. When GMH built the VB Rally carbs with XU1 gear they were lower compression than XU1 to be able to use standard grade fuel if needed. And that was for Australian use, the HK’s had to go a lot further afield. |
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 What I’ve been wondering is, would the engine have been the stock 1968 L48? These were 10.25:1 and needed high octane fuel. When GMH built the VB Rally carbs with XU1 gear they were lower compression than XU1 to be able to use standard grade fuel if needed. And that was for Australian use, the HK’s had to go a lot further afield. Good point, but I believe that either the organisers or the teams supplied their own fuel. They had back-up trucks with 44-gallon drums of following the cars or short-circuiting the routes to get ahead of them for service stops. The "Super" fuel of the day was more than adequate for 10+n comp ratios. Dr Terry |
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I thought of that for Australia. But what about the other parts of the world like Bulgaria, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and India. Surly they didn't freight higher octane fuel around the world? I guess they could have bought it in Italy before heading to Turkey? And then filling up again in Perth? I know our Super fuel was fine for those engines, but our standard and US Regular grade weren't - they were to be run on the higher octane fuel in both countries. The lower compression engines like the L73 327 (aka GTS327) and the LM1 (aka HT-HG GTS350 auto) engines were the engines designed for US regular fuel but our Standard grade fuel here was too low for those so they had to run on Super grade. Finding Super grade across Australia was obviously a worry enough for 1979 with the VB Rally cars, so I can only imagine in 1968 that buying suitable fuel outside of UK, France and Italy might have been a stretch? I just noticed Jack Murray's entry - HK Belmont Automatic, car 91. You don't find too many of those today! Look at the penalty points on Wiki for them - must have been Jack throwing explosives out the car that cost them! https://en.wikipedia.org...ydney_Marathon#The_routeEdited by user Wednesday, 18 January 2023 2:58:02 PM(UTC)
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